Canada, Daily Deals, Stores

Where do The Butchers “Organic meats” come from?

72 Comments

Trueler has received a report from DealFind customer who has managed to verify The Butcher’s claims of organic meat.

For the main thread with comments please refer to

The Butchers Scam on WebPiggy, Dealfind.. Additives in meat

Let’s look at the reasons which the customer provided in the e-mail sent to Dealfind who responded pretty fast and issued a refund without any problems even after 30-days money back guarantee. I think DealFind realizes now how serious the situation around The Butchers is…

Here are the five reasons (copy from original e-mail):

 

1. The Dealfind deal specified: Organic & Naturally Raised

The Dealfind deal specifically mentions “Organic & Naturally Raised” and is confirmed by your staff in the deal discussion forum:

 

Natalie (Dealfind Admin)

25-Feb-2011 9:21am (EST)

Hi Julie,

Thanks for the post! Each voucher is valid for $175 worth of organic naturally raised meats and all products in-store.

Thank you for using Dealfind!

Natalie

Customer Satisfaction Expert

Dealfind

 

Natalie (Dealfind Admin)

25-Feb-2011 12:14pm (EST)

Hello Everyone,

Thank you for your patience!

@Mark- Yes, all of their meat is Organic & Naturally raised.

Thank you for using Dealfind!

Natalie

Customer Satisfaction Expert

Dealfind.com

 

Natalie (Dealfind Admin)

25-Feb-2011 3:53pm (EST)

HI Suzette,

Thank you for your post! Yes, All of the meat is organic and naturally raised. I will have to find out about the grain fed chicken.

Thank you for using Dealfind!

Natalie

Customer Satisfaction Expert

Dealfind.com

I have strong doubts as to the claim that their meats and poultry are organic and naturally raised. Even though it wasn’t specified in your Dealfind ad that their suppliers are Beretta Farms and Blue Haven Farm in Rockwood, it was mentioned in other recent deals such as those from Webpiggy.com. Here is what was specified in those deals:

The Butchers is a local family-owned enterprise devoted to natural and organic methods of raising livestock which include such farmers as Blue Haven Farm in Rockwood who grow exclusively for The Butchers, …

Reviews:

“The beef he sources from organic farmer Mike Beretta is immeasurably superior”

National Post

This information that needed to be verified with The Butchers before being stated in the deal is 100% FALSE. This week I have verified with both Beretta Farms (Ashlee, XXX-XXX-XXXX) and Blue Haven Farm (Marcia Stevers, XXX-XXX-XXXX ) that neither farm has supplied The Butchers with meat for over 2 years (in the case of of Blue Haven about 3 years). Again, even though it wasn’t specified in the Dealfind deal that these are the farms who supply to The Butchers, for them to represent this fact in deals from other sites puts the credibility of the The Butchers in serious question. Can they be trusted when they lied in other deal advertisements? I will not pay organic food prices for non-organic food and it isn’t even an issue of price. I choose organic for ethical (factory farming) and health reasons.

 

2. The Dealfind deal specified: Wide Range of Products

When visiting the store twice in early March I was actually shocked at what I saw. On the first visit the inventory was what I’d call limited and the second time actually laughable. All they had was a huge amount of chicken breasts, chicken legs, and whole chickens over flowing in one display case. In the other case, was a small pile of sad looking rack of ribs. They didn’t even have any stewing beef during this visit. There was absolutely nothing else – the coolers, the fridge, all completely empty! In fact, the cooler, had a big white curtain over it, as to say ‘don’t look at the emptiness’. Silly me for thinking that a butcher shop might have some steaks. They also had NO prepared foods

I put in an email request over one week ago asking what the availability of game (pheasant and venison) is and have yet to hear back with a reply.

 

3. The Dealfind deal specified: To redeem more than 1 voucher at a time,

orders must be placed in advance

by calling Eric or Marlin at 416.483.5777.

Even though I have purchased only one voucher, my friend has purchased five and she will be affected by this change of terms. The Butchers website http://www.thebutchersorganic.com/index2.html now states:

Update April 9th, 2011: The team at The Butchers have stated numerous times that you can NOT use more than one voucher at a time. Today we had numerous customers ask to use more than 1 voucher at a time and our staff politely said no.

 

4. I seriously question the credibility of The Butchers

I purchased one of the first deals they offered from Teamsave.com for $50 worth of organic and naturally raised meat. I hadn’t used this voucher prior to my purchase from Dealfind.com so even though I was not redeeming a Dealfind voucher, the experience is relevant to me deciding to not redeem the Dealfind voucher and instead requesting a refund.

When I went to The Butchers to buy meat in Feb/2011 I was surprised that there were no prices displayed on any of the meats in the display cases. There was a man and a woman behind the counter. This was my first ever visit to The Butchers and my first time using a group-buy type of voucher so I wasn’t exactly sure about the usage specifics and asked the man “do I have to spend the entire $50 all at once”. He replied “no” that they would keep track of the balance. So, even though he didn’t ask if I was using a voucher, by me asking the question he knew I had one. I then ordered 3 large (the man said they were organic) chicken breasts and 3 sausages (2 turkey and one meat). The order came to $55 and I gave him $5 cash. I did find the bill expensive for the amount of meat that I got. When I got home I realized that he never gave me a final receipt (I did give him my $50 voucher and the $5 cash) and none of the baggies that the meats were individually wrapped in had any stickers/labels on them indicating type of meat, weight, price – THAT IS VERY STRANGE as every butcher or grocery store I have ever bought meat from has had a machine that weighs the meat and prints out a label.

 

5. Numerous other sites have raised issues/concerns with The Butchers

Many other people have complained about similar problems and hence it further demonstrates a lack of credibility which is especially vital in the organic food world.

The Butchers Scam on BuyTopia, WebPiggy.. Additives in meat

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/butchers-young-pricing-1003275/11/

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/dealfinds-butchers-organic-meat-deal-55-175-worth-food-followup-1010755/5/

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/765411

 

And again, after this DealFind issued a refund understanding the real problem.

 

Follow-up email of the customer with Beretta Farms and Blue Haven Farms

From the original e-mail:

Marcia, this is a followup to our previous email dialogue.

Hi Ashlee, this is a followup to our phone conversation the other day.

As I mentioned, I was calling to find out if TheButchers were a customer of Beretta Farms. I purchased a ‘groupbuy’ voucher for their products and as a result of my investigation I have asked for a refund from the deal site, Dealfind. A copy of the email I sent them is below and explains much more about the problems I see with TheButchers.

TheButchers has run several deals with several sites (including the same sites offering different deals at various dates with them) during the past 4 months including the biggest one so far in the Cdn ‘groupbuy’ universe in terms of $value and # of vouchers. Their $55 for $175 worth of meats thru Dealfind.com that closed on Feb. 2011 sold 11,293 vouchers.

It’s important to point out, as I discuss below in the #1 section, some of these sites are referencing your company in their ads.

In the case of Beretta Farms, they don’t clearly specify “we source our meats from Beretta Farms” but the buyer is lead to believe (it is inferred) with the use of the National Post review stating:

“The beef he sources from organic farmer Mike Beretta is immeasurably superior”

In the case of Blue Haven Farms, TheButchers have stated in several (but not all as evidenced in the current buytopia.com deal that is available now) ads that they do source product from them:

The Butchers is a local family-owned enterprise devoted to natural and organic methods of raising livestock which include such farmers as Blue Haven Farm in Rockwood who grow exclusively for The Butchers, …

Obviously neither of these statements is currently true and are both so far out of date (more than 2 years) that its only logical to assume they are being used in a ‘bait-n-switch’ marketing mistruth. I’ve captured and attached to this email three ad screen shots as evidence. The first is from Webpiggy but not sure of the date. It references both Blue Haven and Beretta Farms. The second deal from buytopia.com finished on Feb. 7/2011 and references Blue Haven only. The third (its split into 2 pics – a top and bottom) deal is again from buytopia.com and finished on April 12 and only references Beretta Farms.

I’ll leave the rest up to you as to how you want to proceed individually or collectively. If I can be of further assistance let me know.

Sincerely,

Captured screen shots referred to in the message (click on images to enlarge):

1.

butchers-webpiggy-01

2.

butchers-buytopia-01

3.

butchers-buytopia-02

butchers-buytopia-03

 

Field Gate Organics? Exclusive for The Butchers??

Misterious Acadian Beef?

These are additional customer’s findings:

From http://buytopia.ca/ ad:

And this is no regular organic, either. With the exception of its most exotic options, The Butchers sources its meat and other foods from only the finest Toronto markets and farms throughout the Ontario region. We think it’s time you discovered the passion for livestock-raising in these local enterprises. Feel free to check out the devotion to natural and organic methods in some of their partners: Field Gate Organics, who grow exclusively for The Butchers; Cascadian Farms, who supplies chicken and turkey; Markham Meats, who supply Halal meats; and Best Baa Farm in Conn, who supplies lamb and cheese made from sheep’s milk.

I went to http://www.cascadianfarm.com/ and it doesn’t even look like they produce & sell ANY meat and they are located in the US. I thought part of being organic was to source locally.

** Update April 14, 2011 **

I just went to the http://buytopia.ca/ deal site and it seems they’ve changed suppliers again. They’ve changed their deal to remove Cascadian Farms and replaced it with Acadian Beef**. They follow the name with two *’s and state “Copy Error” at the bottom.

Here is the relevant section from the buytopia.ca deal page:

And this is no regular organic, either. With the exception of its most exotic options, The Butchers sources its meat and other foods from only the finest Toronto markets and farms throughout the Ontario region. We think it’s time you discovered the passion for livestock-raising in these local enterprises. Feel free to check out the devotion to natural and organic methods in some of their partners: Field Gate Organics, who grow for The Butchers; Cascadian Farms Acadian Beef**, who supplies chicken and turkey; Markham Quality Meats, who supply Halal meats.

I’ve included screen shots (2 images) of the new ad:

butchers-buytopia-acadian-1

butchers-buytopia-acadian-2

The original ad included links (you could click on the name of the company and it would take you to their home page) for Field Gate Organics and Cascadian Farms but there is no associated link for Acadian Beef. It doesn’t appear that they have a website and all I could find out about this is this:

http://businessprofiles.com/details/Acadian_Beef_Company_Ltd/CA-886585009RC0001

** End of Update **

Am I wrong in thinking that “Field Gate Organics, who grow exclusively for The Butchers” means that FGO only sells to The Butchers – ie. The Butchers is their only customer. That’s incorrect as

http://www.fieldgateorganics.com/default.asp?contentID=583#Top

clearly shows they have lots of customers.

Or am I wrong and it actually means the reverse, that The Butchers exclusively gets their organic/naturally fed beef from FGO (but FGO has other customers).

What am I missing ?


From Trueler:

Thanks for investigation and sharing valuable findings with readers who participated or still participate in “The Butchers”/”Daily Deals” unfair scheme. In my opinion only the fact that daily deal sites specified wrong farms which do not supply The Butchers anymore vanishes all the credibility of The Butchers. Just this single fact is enough. However there are a lot of other facts also…

Please also refer to the main thread:

The Butchers Scam on WebPiggy, Dealfind.. Additives in meat

Thanks!

 

Update as of April 17:

Acadian Beef Company Ltd.

is just a reseller not a farm!

acadian-beef-4

The customer who reported investigation in this article about sources of The Butchers “organic and naturally raised meats” sent pictures taken at the location of “Acadian Beef” which is claimed to be the partner of The Butchers.

This is the only company information which can be found:

Acadian Beef Company

Phone :

(416) 763-0003

Address :

120 Barbados Blvd, Scarborough GTA, ON M1J1L2

There is no information in the Internet about the products being organic and naturally raised by Acadian Beef Company. There is no information about superior quality of their products as well. Usually companies are proud of this and tell about it in many places, but not the Acadian Beef. Does it look strange only for me?

Entrance sign with list of available businesses. Acadian Beef is at Unit 6:

acadian-beef-8

This is Acadian Beef building (on the right):

acadian beef building

Is there enough space to grow “free-run” chicken and turkey? Maybe kangaroo and crocodiles?

Closer look:

acadian-beef-close

And more closer look:

acadian-beef-2

I’m not surprised that one of the customers has found dirt and hair on the chicken delivered by The Butchers…

Isn’t it their hen coop where organic chickens and turkeys grow?

acadian beef 7

(actually this is the image of the next door to Acadian Beef Company)

Observations of our reporter:

Barbados Blvd is a small commercial area around Eglinton Ave, E and McCowan in Scarborough and hosts a variety of businesses. 120 Barbados has about 9 commercial units on each side of a single multi-unit building but there were only about 4 active businesses in these units – the rest were empty. It’s a very run down commercial building.

Acadian is in unit #6 and I believe that is their white refrigerated truck next to it.

I wouldn’t think this is a meat slaughter/packaging business, it looks more like a distribution/storage place.

acadian beef white truck

Thanks a lot for taking these pictures! They are indeed helpful.

 

Let’s continue…

Who is actually the supplier of chicken and turkey for The Butchers?

It used to be “Cascadian Farms”. When it has been revealed that it is not true by one of the customers, Buytopia changed it to “Acadian Beef” telling that it was a “copy error”. From Buytopia.ca website:

buytopia-acadian-beef

Isn’t it also a bit strange that “Acadian Beef” provides chicken and turkey? The Butchers sells A LOT of chicken. Actually sometimes it is the only product available in store according to the customers.

In The Globe and Mail article about The Butchers there is “Arcadian Farms” mentioned as the supplier (note “r” and “farms”):

gam-buytopia-arcadian-farms

Looks like Buytopia misinformed Tim Kiladze by providing “Arcadian Farms” as a supplier. So it implies that it is a farm which grows quality poultry.

Another company – “Eddy Savoie Meats” has the same phone number – (416) 763-0003 but located at the different address: “177 McCormack Street, York, ON M6N1X8”:

eddie-savoie-meats

Let’s continue with “Acadian Beef Company Ltd”.

 

More in-depth search shows that Acadian Beef is not a farm at all! It is not a slaughter plant.

It is a “Freestanding Meat Processor” or “Freestanding Meat Plant“, also known as FSMP.

From the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs

(http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca):

acadian-beef-fsmp-1

acadian-beef-fsmp-2

Acadian Beef company buys meat from some other place, does some manipulations and resells it to The Butchers. They do not grow. Acadian Beef is the local supplier – definitely. But the origins of the meat can be anywhere in the world.

Here are some definitions of Freestanding Meat Plant.

From the Legislative Assembly of Ontario

(http://www.ontla.on.ca/library/repository/mon/10000/252931.pdf):

free-standing-meat-plant-def1

From the Agricultural Institute of Canada

(http://www.aic.ca/conferences/pdf/Pat_Johnson2.pdf):

free-standing-meat-plant-def2

free-standing-meat-plant-def3

Right, it is not an abattoir with strict inspections and available information.

It is just a reseller, not a farm as claimed by Buytopia and The Globe and Mail.

There were sanitary problems with Free-standing Meat Processors (Plants).

From http://www.nupge.ca/news_2007/n23se07a.htm:

fsmp-inspectors

The last time Acadian Beef Company has been inspected about two years ago:

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/food/inspection/meatinsp/abattoir_audit_ratings.htm

acadian-beef-audit-2


It has also been audited about three and a half years ago:

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/food/inspection/meatinsp/abattoir_audit_ratings_2008.htm

acadian-beef-audit-1

The company working with raw meat is being inspected by health operators only in about two years. It reminds me about dirt and hair on the chicken delivered to one of the customers by The Butchers again…

The summary of update:

Buytopia and The Globe and Mail misinformed valued customers by providing incorrect information about the sources of “Organic and Naturally raised meats” for The Butchers. They assured that everything goes from local Ontario farmers including “Arcadian Farms”/”Acadian Beef”. But it actually goes from a reseller working in not perfect conditions…

 

Who claims that The Butchers sells

organic meats only?

Note for those who prefer to say that The Butchers do not tell that they sell organic. They said “100% certified organic” (actually Buytopia did) in the full page advertisement in “Metro” on Wednesday, April 13, 2011.

Thanks to Kate who contributes to the situation around The Butchers in her post The Dark Side of Online Group Coupons and saved a copy of that metro edition:

http://www.k4t3.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/butchers_metro_buytopia.pdf

Here is a screenshot:

buytopia-metro-organic

“100% Certified Organic” sign on the left means that 100% of their products are claimed to be Certified Organic. Otherwise it is a deceptive advertisement…

 

Meat from Acadian Beef

Kate raynes-goldie reported phone conversation with Acadian Beef Company on her blog:

http://www.k4t3.org/2011/04/02/the-dark-side-of-online-group-coupons/#updates

Important points:

  • Meat supplied to The Butchers is not organic
  • “Naturally raised” means “No antibiotics“
  • Animals eat corn. I guess non-organic, but genetically modified corn
  • Actually they are factory farmed, not naturally raised
  • Acadian Beef Company buys meat from other suppliers, and they don’t know where exactly the meat comes from…

Buytopia and The Butchers claimed that Acadian Beef supplies chicken and turkey which were sometimes the only available products in store (plus some small amount of meat)…

72 thoughts on “Where do The Butchers “Organic meats” come from?”

  1. The evil-doers of The Butchers and Webshilly will soon change names and disappear.

    The bagholders will cry.

    The shills will disappear and move on to their next victims and pyramid scheme after.

    There is no ‘meat’ here. Just fluff, fat and fudgeloving pigs.

    Marlon, my son, you are a genius for concocting this scheme.
    Oh dumb sheep what ever will you do when my son joins me?

  2. Hi Leyla, aka Yongeman… a shill by any other name is still a shill. You may get away with it on Chowhound with full support of the moderators, but here, you’ll get called out by the site owner. Thanks Trueler for putting the shills in their place, which Chowhound mods refuse to do.

    Leyla/Yongeman will come up with some story that he went in today, saw a full fridge of meat, no lineup, great service by Marlon and his staff, and was able to redeem the voucher in full with no problems. And then talk about the high quality product when he went home to have it for dinner. That’s what he does on Chowhound all the time and if you try to call him out the mods delete it.

    Sorry, Yongeman, nobody believes you.

  3. Hi Leyla,

    1) Thanks for your opinion!

    2) It is neither “just a small portion of the voucher holders who are unsatisfied” nor “the few people who have had bad experiences at The Butchers”. It is hard to imagine who may be satisfied now being able to spend only $25 of the coupon at a time (according to feedback) during the most inconvenient time of the day (when most people are busy). Not talking about meat quality and availability.

    3) If you are bored with this story, why are you interested only in this one? Why don’t you read other news at Trueler.com and not sharing your opinion?

    4) Three posts about The Butchers here contain not only opinions, but proven facts.

    5) Are you enjoying your 20 Buytopia vouchers by taking time off your work or business in order to redeem them?

    Thanks!
    Trueler

  4. Thank you Trueler for covering this story, but I think you are only attracting the few people who have had bad experiences at The Butchers. I initially bought the teamsave voucher and bought 20 of the buytopia deal. I have had great experiences at the Butchers, so I think that the people who are satisfied with their order are not writing about it.

    So I thought I will let you and others know that this deal has had some negative feedback but there are other lot of happy people like myself, and my neighbours who I convinced to buy the voucher. They have sold a lot of coupons and it seems like the people who write on other blogs like chowhound and yelp are the same people. So maybe it’s just a small portion of the voucher holders who are unsatisfied.

    So my opinion to you and others is that this story is getting boring and I think you as a truth teller should look elsewhere for better news.

  5. Marlon Madoff – the apple didn’t fall far from the tree.

    My Son has learned the great art of the Ponz. He has literally pump, pump, pumped this business up to a level that is unsustainable. And you stupid poor grazing sheep are too stupid to notice he has been dump, dump, dumping along the way.

    Soon he will be gone, with your money and your meat. And oh, whatever will you do?
    Oh shill pumper – what will you do to the poor hippy who spent 20% of his weekly earning on Marlon’s scheme?
    Oh shill pumper – you are a weak verison of Madoff. You are not as smart as Marlon and that is why you work for him.

    As i write this from the fed. Take my advice. Ask for a refund and leave. There’s no party here at the meat store.

    The only party is in Marlon’s meat makers market account.

  8. It wouldn’t surprise me that low/out of stock will remain for the near future. It is obvious on their level of imcopetency with regards to any forsight on the logistics involved with servicing new customers. Lost and unaccounted orders are the norm at this point. What I do feel is there might be some reasoning to this. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Marlon is not a very astute business man when it comes to professional ethics and servicing its customers in the interest for long term business goals (successful). I think he is buying time until the remainder of the pay out cheques from all of the ‘Daily Deal’ sites.. 30/60/90? days. At that point we will see something drastic happen. Closing of shop? Maybe but something will give for sure. Maybe funding and concentration of the ‘other’ new retail outlets but whatever happens he has shown now and forever that he will continue to lie and cheat his customers by playing on their demand for ‘Organic’ food. Has anyone just called ‘The Butchers’ and ask them who their CURRENT organic suppliers are? I mean just for verification. I suspect it will be some BS just like all the other ‘Organic’ suppliers whom have verified to be false based on lies and deception.

  10. I posted this on RFD as well… it looks like Good Friday will be the only time people who work regular hours (Mon-Fri except public holidays) will be able to redeem their coupons. I’d suggest camping out Thursday night if you want to have any hope of taking home any (non-organic) meats at ridiculous markups… the lineup will probably be a mile long on Friday morning and they’ll be sold out by lunch “break”!

  11. Well, they’ve totally changed their website now. Its down to a single page. I’m wondering what was incriminating enough on the other pages for them to remove them.

  12. yes mark… unfortunately their working hours are being reduced more and more…

    How people can physically redeem their coupons now without taking time off at work?

  13. Actually back around the first week of April, their hours were changed to 8am-8pm. Now it’s changed again to 10-11:30 and 1pm-6pm. So they went from 12 hour day to 6.5 hour day (almost half). Better go soon before they go to a three hour day.

  14. found on the RFD forum

    For the longest time they said they would be open on Good Friday, now, they are saying they will be closed on Good Friday. I guess they realized it was against the law to open on Good Friday…

    — ———-
    STORE HOURS

    Update April 11th, 2011: The Butchers will be CLOSED on Good Friday.

    Tuesday-Friday 10am – 11:30am
    Closed from 11:30am-1pm**
    Open Again from 1- 6pm
    Saturday: 10am-6pm
    Sunday: 11am-5pm

    Just a short while ago while the groupbuy deals were going on they extended their week day hours to go until 8pm… It showsthey close at 6pm now.

  15. Looks like Butchers shill/apologist Yongeman is at it again on Chowhound, trying to confuse the issue of organic vs. non-organic meat, and of course the moderators let him continue. What a joke.

  18. An update reply from someone who actually spoke with Acadian Beef Company.

    “i finally got a hold of eddie at acadian beef, who is one of the suppliers of the butcher, as featured here http://trueler.com/2011/04/15/where-the-butchers-organic-meats-come-from/#update2

    this probably explains how the butcher is making money

    eddie told me:
    – he does NOT supply organic meat to the butcher
    – he instead sells ‘naturally raised’ which he told me means ‘no antibiotics and they eat corn’ BUT are still ‘intensively farmed’ (read factory farmed)
    – he himself buys meat from suppliers and cannot say exactly where or which farms the meat comes from.

    so there you go. the butchers advertises (see here: http://www.k4t3.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/butchers_metro_buytopia.pdf) and charges for 100% certified organic meat from a local farmer, but you’re instead you’re getting factory farmed meat from who knows where, just like you would at the grocery store except the animal is hormone free and gets to eat corn ”

    For those that do not know, a further discussion on RFD about “The Butcher”

    http://forums.redflagdeals.com/merged-butchers-organic-meat-feedback-discussion-999078/21/

    I suggest everyone make a formal complaint from the links provided by MikeP.

  19. @MikeP

    Thanks for the links. I think the only way to get justice is if we all go the links and file formal complaints. Get the competition bureau and canadian food inspection.

    I just did all 3 links. Hope everyone will do the same. It was quick.

  21. @Anthony O.:

    Local Ontario “… Farms” being mentioned as a supplier of any meat shop definitely wins consumers’ confidence. And The Butchers and daily deal sites took advantage of it by giving incorrect information.

    People are interested to know what the source of meat is. Why Buytopia specified the name of reseller instead of the real source of The Butchers meat? Why do they conceal this information?

    About Field Gate organics. Buytopia specified: “Field Gate Organics, who grow exclusively for The Butchers“. I think it wins a lot more consumers’ confidence. In reality FGO supplies about 50 stores in Ontario…

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  22. Good research on “Acadian Beef”, I agree that it is worth further investigating. Did you call the business and get more information? how long in business, do they supply the butchers?

    “Looks like Buytopia misinformed Tim Kiladze by providing “Arcadian Farms” as a supplier. So it implies that it is a farm which grows quality poultry.” ….another example of faulty reasoning. On the buytopia website, based on your screenshot it says Acadian Beef, NOT farms. Also, a supplier doesn’t have to be a farm.

    What about Field Gate Organics? @MARK had some great questions. I hope you will be calling them and giving us an update aswell.

    1. Does FGO supply to TheButchers right NOW?
    2. Assuming they do supply to them, “has TheButchers recently increased their orders from FGO for organic products ?”

    I’m looking forward to your update on both Acadian and Field Gate.

  23. Marlin the Madoff — you can run but you can’t hide… I can almost hear the theme song from “Cops” playing in the background… bad boys bad boys, whatcha gonna do when they come for you…

    How soon before he suddenly closes the shop and flees the country….

  24. It’s called the Globe getting an “exclusive” story/interview under the condition that Marlon the Madoff gets to edit or rewrite the article to his satisfaction first….

  25. Wow.
    This story is keeps unraveling … and *this* is what I call quality journalism. Why do we know more about this, than the ‘professionals’ at the Globe, ect?!

  26. I spent exactly the value of my coupon, not a penny more and will never step foot in The Butchers establishments again. So much for their ‘loss leader’ logic.
    My horrendous dealings with The Butchers, has convinced me that all my meat purchasing will now be done at *****.

  27. There should of been questions asked from the Globe & Mail.

    Who is their current organic supplier? I feel this is important because they seem to back peddle to a new supplier and the ones that have been stated have been verified to be false.

  28. WRT Buytopia.ca investigating and saying
    === “… Buytopia found out that some skeptical daily deal === hunters had already called Field Gate themselves, and === Field Gate assured that their products are organic”.

    This is really sloppy writing or investigation or both by Buytopia investigators and Tim Kiladze.
    Ok, so we now know that FGO sells organic products (but I already knew that as well as many others).
    The real questions are:

    1. “does FGO supply to TheButchers right now ?” (we also know that Beretta and Blue Haven USED to supply to them but that was over 2 years ago so I have to add the “right now” part to the question). You see, calming people’s fears about whether FGO’s products are organic or not is only half the question … the other half is “is FGO a current supplier of organic products to TheButchers ?”. FGO selling organic products doesn’t mean they are selling them to TheButchers !! Clever writing and avoidance of the real issue in that article.

    2. assuming they do supply to them, “has TheButchers recently increased their orders from FGO for organic products ?”

  29. Trueler,

    Thanks for this, This is quite disturbing. I don’t know what more evidence people need? The Butcher is a huge FRAUD/SCAM butcher company. Sad to see Globe and Mail did not do their Due Diligence and group buy sites having ‘Copy Error’ is the biggest BS excuse I have ever met.

    The Butcher is a FRAUD, SCAM of a company with lack of morality and horrible business ethics. A big lie!

  32. @Elaine,

    Very interesting, thank you for sharing. It is obvious some scam is going on with The Butcher.

  33. I own a meat distribution company which used to supply products to The Butchers. This company has a long history of cash flow problems and not paying its suppliers which is why many of the above mentioned suppliers no longer deal with The Butchers. There are a limited number of truly organic meat suppliers and it should be very easy to verify any claims they are making regarding the source of their meats. Only foods that are grown, processed and inspected according to strict organic standards can be labelled “certified organic.” Consumers can look for the Canadian Organic Standards seal and an organic certifier’s mark on their packages of organic productions. You should see both seals to be assured that each step in the entire organic supply chain meets the accepted organic regulations and guidelines.

  34. @Pete: The Butchers used customers confidence for promotion and then significantly reduced quality, assortment, service hours, … they are changing conditions to the coupons on the fly. You don’t know where the meats really come from. It’s called a scam.

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  35. Nice deal, HORRIBLE service.

    Been waiting TWO weeks for a meat order, supposed to come yesterday (Friday) didn’t, supposed to come today…hasn’t. Went to the store in person twice, CLOSED DURING the normal BUSINESS hours. Phone goes to machine so you can’t talk to anyone. E-mail takes a week to get a response. Absolutely HORRID customer service.

  36. I may be alone in this, but I see no value in any ‘organic’ or ‘grain-fed’ labeling or BS posturing. Can you show me unbiased scientific documentation that a 50%+ premium on any organic product is justified by the supposed health benefits?

    I bought these coupons as a way to get some cheap meat that is the same or better quality as I usually find somewhere like ‘food basics’ or pricechoppers….. I could not care less whether it is organic or not.

    The ‘regular prices’ are outrageously high, but the discount makes them reasonable. The owner missed his mark if he thinks he will gain me as a regular customer. I am more likely to calculate my purchases so that I will leave a dollar or two on the coupon at the end of the order.

    The blogs/sites who think they’ve exposed some great scam or injustice are laughable…. very important in their own minds, but …… really only helping lazy people who don’t read fine print or have no common sense.

  38. Sean O’Shea, Vanessa Lu, and local/national papers should be investigating. Follow leads and interview poster, as well as question groupbuy site moderators why negative feedback was deleted?

    As for The Butchers, I expect the same reporters & media outlets that provided free advertising for this store, to peel back the layers of restrictions and agree that Marlon’s conduct goes against the nature of the original groupbuy goals & conditions of purchase. A consumer watching a TV reporter showcase The Butchers could interpret that this business/voucher was worry-free. Current developments demonstrate otherwise.

    Common onsumers doesn’t have a legal department to champion their appeal. We rely on guys like Sean & Vanessa to fight for us. Time will tell if Global TV, Toronto Star, National Post and others will approach this with better optics.

  41. from TheButchers website April 15 http://www.thebutchersorganic.com/index2.html

    ** Due to an influx of vouchers we have decided to close the store from 11:30am-1pm weekdays to clean and restock the store. After discussions with Toronto Health we have taken precautionary measures to ensure we continue to keep up our standards around cleanliness of the store.

  42. This just in from Dealticker:

    Dear DealTicker Customers:

    It has come to our attention that The Butchers are turning away customers and refusing to honour vouchers purchased through our site.

    This action has been taken unilaterally by The Butchers without consultation with or prior warning to DealTicker.

    As a result of this conduct, we are obliged to discontinue this deal. We are currently in consultations with our legal team and are considering all legal remedies available against The Butchers.

    To all who purchased this offering, DealTicker has only taken an authorization and no charges have been processed on to any credit cards. As such, all authorizations will be cancelled and no charges will appear for these transactions.

    We sincerely regret any inconvenience the actions of The Butchers may have caused.

    Thank you for your patience and understanding.

    Yours very truly,

  43. Thanks for the delving deeper into the discussion. I appreciate you taking the time to show all of the questions and concerns that people have with the butcher deal. I agree with the dealfind discussion board and fully organic comments. From my experience, as I described in my previous comments the butchers had organic, naturally raised, free range, AND non-organic meat. So whom ever made the “all organic” comment was obviously misleading.

    For me all of the points you raise are valid, but it seems that you stop short on describing the other alternatives, or looking into the matter fully. For example, did you give fieldgate farms a call? what did they say? did you call the acadian beef company? it took me three seconds to find this link on google. http://www.weblocal.ca/acadian-beef-company-toronto-on.html

    I don’t have many pet peeves, but my biggest is people who know little but talk about everything with authority. There are many examples of logical and factual fallacies, and I don’t have the time to teach critical reasoning here, but as an example your “I choose organic for ethical (factory farming) and health reasons.” is completely FALSE. Please read…http://www.organicconsumers.org/nosb2.htm …You’re confusing naturally raised with organic….another example, is the flawed reasoning, “because it has some it has a lot” from your past post.

    Furthermore, It seems that the story is very one sided. Most reporters would look into the matter fully and publish a more balanced description. For example there are a number of articles and reviews which are positive, but you seem to only focus on the negatives.

    The main issue that I have with the butchers is not the quality of meat, nor changing of terms, but the fact that they are swamped. Which is also why I don’t mind the terms being changed, because i understand that he needs to make money, and at the same time balance the coupon demand. On one of the blogs I read that he changed to weekends to accommodate his regular clientele which he has to do to actually earn a living. As i mentioned in my other post, I didn’t buy this weeks voucher because i bought too many from the other campaigns and so i’m butchered out. But I have never had an issue getting what I want because i’ve always called ahead, ordered the cut I wanted and picked it up on the day I want to cook. It’s not much of a hassle and doesn’t bother me because i’m still getting a big saving and getting cuts i would not get elsewhere. Looking at his price list, if someone bought this weeks deal, they would get a lot of the meats at an incredible price, WAY cheaper than any other butcher shop.

    Besides us coupon buyers need to be prepared to wait months to redeem some of the vouchers we buy. I still have 4 house cleanings that need to be used. Which reminds me…

  44. now the butcher is differentiating between different group buying sites. webpiggy customers cannot redeem vouchers on weekeds whereas buytopia customers can! why wouldnt anyone who bought from webpiggy get a full refund and buy from buytopia since the deal at buytopia is better and can be used on weeekends. shame on webpiggy for not looking out for their customers!!!!!

  45. Thanks so much for this. For the discounts they offer, there is no way they are turning a profit and offering quality “Organic” meats. It is obvious they cut corners somewhere and using ‘Organic’ to fleece its customers. Scam all the way if you look at the bigger picture.

  47. What a thing of beauty! The house of cards is about to come crashing down Madoff-style. The Butchers and their partners in crime WebPiggy and DealFind can finally go away and they can take their fish store with them. Their team of shills has been noticeably absent from this particular blog post because they have NO DEFENSE other than trying to get away with more lies and deception. We ain’t falling for it.

    Maybe the farms they lied about using as suppliers should sue them for defamation of character!

    Kudos to Trueler and K4T3 blogs for getting on this case since clearly The Toronto Star didn’t want to upset the apple cart and hurt their WagJag business in the process. It’s too bad Silverman Helps isn’t on TV anymore, he’d have had a field day with these guys.

  48. As you know, dealticker.com started a new deal with TheButchers today (Friday April 15) and their current deal with buytopia.ca which was extended today stated that that would be the last deal that TheButchers offered.
    Well, looks like TheButchers is holding true to the buytopia.ca deal being their last but Dealticker.com is saying no way.

    ________________________________________
    From TheButchers website:

    Important Message April 15 2011: The Deal Ticker ad that went out this morning is not valid. Please contact Deal Ticker is you have any questions/concerns. We promised this was our last voucher deal so please note the Buytopia deal that ends this weekend will be the last group deal as originally specified.

    From Dealticker Admin: April 15, 2011 11:15 AM
    UPDATE: DealTicker will ensure that all customers are protected, and refunded in the case of The Butchers not honoring the vouchers, and not providing the quality and products agreed upon (as per contractual obligations), and we want to inform all customers that we are going to look after their best interest at hand first and foremost. Please stay tuned as our legal team is vigorously pursuing this case and we will keep everyone posted on the outcome as soon as we receive feedback. At this point in time, we are ensuring that our customers best interest is at hand, and will keep you posted on the status.

    From Dealticker Admin: April 15, 2011 10:48 AM
    REMINDER: Our legal team is currently looking into the agreements made between DealTicker and The Butchers. DealTicker will do everything in our power to ensure that The Butchers live up to their contract. We will post updates as they become available. Please feel free to purchase this deal, and shall there be any further issues, full refunds will be provided to every single customer as DealTicker takes priority in protecting and standing behind our customers. If you have any questions for concerns please emails us at support@dealticker.com

    From Dealticker Admin: April 15, 2011 9:29 AM
    MESSAGE TO ALL READERS: DealTicker has a signed contract in place, and has documentation as proof that the Butchers agreed to feature this deal on DealTicker today. Our legal team is currently dealing with this issue, so feel free to purchase this voucher, and shall there be any complications with redeeming the voucher beginning April 21st, you will receive a full refund. Thank you for using DealTicker.

  49. In the Redflagdeals thread there is an updated list of their suppliers…. They (Buytopia) said that “cascadian” was a typo… ha, pretty big typo. I am curious to see a confirmation on their source of all of this organic/naturally raised beef… The Butchers should be more open on this aspect since that is usually a strong selling point for most of the butchers that specialize in higher end meat!

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