The Butchers Scam on BuyTopia, WebPiggy.. Additives in meat

The Butchers “Organic and Naturally raised meats shop” has sold over 15,000 coupons in Toronto for approximately $175 each worth of meat at the cost of $55. It is over $2.6 million dollars worth of meat. If we take an average price of the most selling meats by The Butchers as $30 per kilogram (chicken, ground beef, etc…), we get about 90 tons of “organic and naturally raised” meat. For a really small shop! Everyone can speculate about these numbers and conclude that it is not possible to meet this huge demand without dramatic decrease in quality of meats and service.

The Butchers shop has been featured by Webpiggy, Dealgetters, DealFind, Dealticker, TeamSave, BuyTopia daily deals websites (did I miss anyone?). There were a lot of complaints on service, products and prices at The Butchers after the major offer on DealFind. It turns to be a scam at some discussion forums. They simply can not handle all the customers. They significantly reduced working hours, assortment, quality, etc. The only thing they should care about now is to service all customers with already purchased coupons because The Butchers has real problems with it (actually vice versa – many customers have problems with The Butchers). But! What do they do instead?

They are offering another deal on WebPiggy again:

$100 for $400 worth of organic and naturally raised meat from The Butchers, inclusive of a $50 credit to the opening of Marlin’s Fish Shop. Don’t miss The Butchers 10th Anniversary, Deal of the Century!

It is running through the weekend (April 8 – 10) and 1600 already bought the deal. I think they just need more cash to purchase more meat from some cheap place. I don’t see another explanation.

Well.. There were only speculations before in this post.

Now Trueler provides real proofs of how “Organic and Naturally raised” the meat from The Butchers is and what it actually worth.

Most of the products purchased with one of the coupons at The Butchers in the beginning of April 2011 were of bad quality. I have prepared and described facts about sausages bought at The Butchers. They definitely do not worth $10.99/pound (or $24.40/kg). Probably $1.99/pound is a fair price for them (I’m not sure what is the exact percentage of starch and carrageenan they have added to the sausages).

Let’s see what “Organic and Naturally raised” sausages from The Butchers represent.

The Butchers - Sausages in bag

After thawing of frosted sausages there were about 50ml of water in the plastic bag per 1 lb of meat. It is over 10%. Here is a picture:

The Butchers - Water in sausages

The consistence of sausages were very suspicious to be claimed as “Organic and Naturally raised”:

The Butchers - Sausage consistence

It looks like a sponge which is a sure sign of starch presence in the meat. I used Iodine Test to show everyone that sausages from The Butchers contain a lot of starch. Iodine reacts with starch to produce purple black color or blue black color (depending on how much of starch is present in the product). I’ve written a letter “S” by Iodine on the cut of sausage and it turned purple black:

The Butchers - Starch iodine reaction with meat

It means that there is a lot of starch in those sausages. Here is a comparison to understand the reaction. Potato contains starch and pear does not:

The Butchers - Starch Iodine reaction with sausage, potato and pear

Iodine written “S” remained brown on a piece of pear. Iodine reacted with starch contained in potato and “Organic and Naturally raised” sausages from The Butchers.

Is the starch used by The Butchers organic and naturally raised? It could be. But it also could be a modified corn starch or even something less natural. I don’t know.

But sausages with significant amount of starch definitely do not worth $24/kg (or $10.99/lb)! It is like cheap prepacked sausages from the nearest supermarket.

Let’s try to cook them!

The Butchers - Let's cook

I have never seen good barbecue sausages exploding when cooking…

It is because of natural sausage casing which does not crack.

The Butchers - Cooking 1

Sausages from The Butchers started to crack quite soon:

The Butchers - Cooking 2

Then sausages exploded!

The Butchers - Cooking 3

This definitely means that sausage casings are artificial and NOT natural.

Meantime Iodine almost evaporated from the pear without reaction, but left its footprint on the sausage made from starch:

The Butchers - Starch reaction after time passed

After cooling sausages significantly shrinked:

The Butchers - Shrinked sausages

Inflation of sausages in the oven, shrinking when cooled, excess water – all of these is a sure sign of carrageenan (E407 food additive) in the meat. It is used in the food industry to increase or even double the weight of meat. Carrageenan may cause allergic reactions for some people.

 

Scented sausages with preservatives from The Butchers

(update as of April 11)

I left piece of UNCOOKED sausage out of the fridge at a room temperature for about two days.

It did not spoil at all! It has absolutely the same smell as it had two days ago. Natural meat should spoil in a warm place very quickly. However sausages from The Butchers kept their scent which is most likely artificial. Unfortunately I can’t post and share the smell here, but it is absolutely the same as two days ago. It definitely means that at least preservatives have been added to the meat being claimed by The Butchers as “Organic and Naturally raised”. It is a sure sign of artificial flavor added as well. Or has the meat been raised with antibiotics?


This is just one example of bad quality products from The Butchers. For other products and services I have not prepared a visual demonstration, but can add the following:

  • Beef had almost the worst quality I have ever tried. It was sinewy and hard (cooked well as usual)
  • Poor choice in the store on weekend at around noon
  • No receipt provided!

It looks like a million dollars scam with current unfair support from WebPiggy who manipulates with comments on their discussion board by removing valuable truthful posts from the customers in order to conceal information about The Butchers and promote the scam.

Too many unnatural things are happening at The Butchers, don’t you think so?

 

The “Last and Final” deal from The Butchers?!!

(April 12, 2011)

Unbelievable! Now on Buytopia with the “Final Deal“:

$99 for $400 Worth of Organically and Naturally Raised Meats from The Butchers – LAST DEAL FROM THE BUTCHERS

Is it really final? I hope this scam will end soon… Will anyone buy this deal from Buytopia.ca after all things happened with previous deals from The Butchers on other daily deal websites?

 

Update: We have a report from one of the customers:

Where do The Butchers “Organic meats” come from?

 

One more “Last Deal” at DealTicker

(April 15)

“The Butchers” deal on DealTicker with the same $99 for $400 deal. One more last deal?! Let me guess… Next one will be on…

$99 for $400 worth of Organic and Naturally Raised Meats and More from The Butchers (includes a $50 credit to use at soon to be launched Marlon’s Fish store) ($400 Value)


butchers-dealticker-deal

 

Attention!

The Butchers website states that the deal on DealTicker is NOT valid!

butchers-dealticker-not-valid

However DealTicker still states the opposite and encouraging to buy more and more coupons:

butchers-dealticker-deal-comments-buy-deals

What the heck is going on?! Just another promotion?

Here is the answer from DealTicker who sent an e-mail to subscribers very late:

It has come to our attention that The Butchers are turning away customers and refusing to honour vouchers purchased through our site.

This action has been taken unilaterally by The Butchers without consultation with or prior warning to DealTicker.

As a result of this conduct, we are obliged to discontinue this deal. We are currently in consultations with our legal team and are considering all legal remedies available against The Butchers.

We sincerely regret any inconvenience the actions of The Butchers may have caused.

DealTicker was knowingly running the not valid deal for almost entire day looking for profit. Moreover, they solely blame The Butchers for this. This is the worst thing the daily deals company could do. They wanted to sell thousands of deals in five days making tens or hundreds thousand dollar profit regardless of all the negative experience about redeeming earlier coupons shared in the Internet by coupons holders. Unfortunately DealTicker let their users down.

 

The article in The Globe and Mail

You may find the original article here:

Ninety-nine bucks for $400 worth of organic meat. Seriously?

written by Tim Kiladze for Saturday’s Globe and Mail.

 

Several interesting things in the writing caught my attention and I’d like to comment on them:

 

1. Looks like The Butchers is very short on cash now, so they asked daily deal companies for a quicker payment plan.

the-butchers-globe-quicker-payment

 

2. Marlon Pather and The Butchers are going to run more deals (maybe later).

the-butchers-globe-last-deal

 

3. The author and editors of The Globe and Mail are not aware that Chemistry is indeed science. Here is a definition from Wikipedia for those who still in doubts: “Chemistry is the science of matter and the changes it undergoes”.

the-butchers-globe-unscientific

 

They also claimed:

Then there’s the marketing potential. “What people don’t realize is every customer that’s come into my store, they write their e-mail address,” Mr. Pather says

Has anyone been requested to write e-mail address in store?

 

Siesta at The Butchers every weekday!

The company made it almost absolutely impossible to redeem the coupons for people. The Butchers is closed now from 11:30am until 1pm during weekdays and does not accept vouchers on weekends.

the-butchers-siesta

For most of the customers lunch time is the only possible time to visit the store during a working day.

This is one more very serious change to the voucher conditions by The Butchers. “Keeping our standards”…

 

What’s next with The Butchers? Re-branding!

Marlin’s Fish Shop, Marlons Butchery, Marlon’s Meat

Even if The Butchers goes under there is a good plan. But maybe it is the plan itself… who knows…

313 comments to The Butchers Scam on BuyTopia, WebPiggy.. Additives in meat

  • You should probably report this to the city agency in charge of this stuff. And encourage other people to file complaints.

    http://app.toronto.ca/food2/index.jsp
    (Trueler’s note: broken website link corrected. You need to specify “The Butchers” in “Search an establishment” field)

  • jammer64

    I have made a complaint to the Ministry of Consumer Affairs.

  • Mel

    Thanks for sharing this – I was looking at this deal on the weekend and thought that it was really too good to be true. Absolutely awful, eh?

  • Jessy

    Thank you for taking the time to post this! It was very helpful & I’m SO glad I didn’t go in on this deal (or the ones before).
    Shame on Webpiggy especially for contributing to this SCAM!

  • thanks for covering this. it seems like only the bloggers are picking this up. where are the mainstream journalists? oh right, writing stories about how great the store is: http://www.thestar.com/iphone/Business/article/967973

    it upsets me so much that people who are trying to eat ethically are being screwed over.

    i’ve written about it on my blog too: http://www.k4t3.org/2011/04/02/the-dark-side-of-online-group-coupons/

    i’m adding a link to yours.

  • RFD guy

    http://www.moneyville.ca/article/967973–online-coupon-sites-keep-sprouting

    Vanessa Lu, reporter for Toronto Star, should be contacted. Consumers look to her columns for guidance and trust her advice. If she hasn’t looked into The Butchers & Webpiggy after all this stink across Canadian forums then she?s not fit to write for Toronto Star.

  • dave

    this is a definite scam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Igs

    Wow, I am Shocked!

    Won’t be purchasing from Webpiggy that’s for sure!

    I wouldn’t be surprised if these guys go out of business and everyone looses their vouchers. :(

  • mrs potato

    UNREAL!

    Who is doing the auditing of this business!?

  • CaviarRyan

    Just a word of caution on this blog.

    I’ve been shopping at the Butcher for a long time, and have NOT noticed a difference in the quality of the meat since the coupons started coming through. A decrease in supply on weekends, for sure, line-ups occassionaly, yes. but the rib-eye’s and striploins I’ve been buying have been outstanding over the last few weeks, just now I get them 60% Off.

    And last time I was in line there were several repeat HAPPY customers looking forward to getting their local cuts as well.

    I’m no expert on iodine or starch tests, but being in the gourmet food industry for the last 8 years I know when things taste good. The butchers was outstanding. I look forward to the opening of his fish shop accross the street.

    I encourage people to go try it for themselves. You’re not going to get better aged beef anywhere else: Longo’s charges over $20 a pound, and it was so-so.

  • Trueler

    Hi CaviarRyan,

    When artificial flavors, preservatives, and other unnatural stuff is added to the product it may taste extremely good. Chemical food industry can work miracles. So by taste it is hard to say about quality of the product.

    We want to buy “Organic and Naturally raised meats” from The Butchers, not the starch, water and other food additives. You may just search for “Iodine Test” or “Iodine Test Reaction” to get some knowledge. It won’t take too much of your time.

    A lot of people already tried it… and many complaints shared.

    I think quality of the meat is very important. But don’t forget about other points:

    - Significantly changed conditions of the sold vouchers after “money back” period passed
    - Some customers are unable to redeem vouchers due to closure for the weekends (new terms)
    - Price labels are different from what is being actually charged when you buy (sometimes no price labels)
    - Very poor assortment even in the beginning of the day
    - Several weeks waiting for deliveries
    - Some people are unable to place orders (The Butchers doesn’t respond)
    - Missed items in prepared orders, because they are out of stock
    - No receipts provided
    - They continue to run more and more deals when they can’t handle existing customers with already purchased deals

    It shows outrageous disrespect to people who initially trusted to The Butchers and purchased deals.

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • paul

    I agree with CaviarRyan. The quality is good and I have not noticed the problems that this blog is reporting. The selection and supply is a little low as there are so many people buying but this report seems a little over the top. It is not a scam.

  • Gary

    This blog is awesome and 100% accurate as I have had all the same problems and experiences with my dealfind coupons. Really funny is the fact that they had many health code violations and a fine!

  • Gary

    Hahaha, the deal is also on buytopia.ca today and they just pulled the ‘discussion’ link because of all the bad reviews.

  • gr1

    The astroturfing by proponents of this store is ridiculous.

  • just watching

    I too, have had a TERRIBLE time with The Butchers since purchasing my vouchers.

  • Tee

    What I find even more shocking is the price – $21 for 4 sausages?

  • Anthony O.

    So I’ve actually bought the vouchers from Webpiggy (first deal) and Dealfind.
    The first deal was a much lower value, and the prices were lower than they are now. However everyone is absolutely over-exagerating the price increase. It went up by less than (10%). I’m in the restaurant industry, and if you factor in the discount given by the butcher, the prices are on par with what the owner pays at our restaurant. So my take is that they are basically breaking even, with the hopes of creating buzz.

    I had no problem redeeming the first voucher. Meat was great, and service was nothing to complain about. However after the dealfind deal the store was absolutely SLAMMED! I had to wait in line for 20 minutes to redeem the coupon. That being said, that is NOT a ridiculous amount of time. I did go at the end of the day, and the assortment of meat was much lower than the first time, basically chicken and a few steaks left. I wasn’t too impressed. After chatting with the owner/manager/butcher, they told me that if I wanted to be guaranteed an aged ribeye, I would have to place an order in advance. Obviously this is an inconvenience, but that being said, I completely understand that the business is overwhelmed and needs to adjust. So for the next voucher that I redeemed, I called two days in advance, and upon arrival was given a prepackaged order with what I asked for. The meat quality was not anything worse than what I buy at Costco, or Metro. Not sure what happened to everyone else, but I have been three times now and have not had anything outrageous happen. I completely understand that it’s not ideal to call ahead, but common, we’re buying 60%-80% off coupons, and clearly I’m not the only one bright enough to buy these.

  • Trueler

    Hi Tee,

    Yeah, it’s shocking… But actually it was two plastic bags of sausages (8 total) and they put label only on one bag.

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • Vekole

    OMG people – give your heads a shake. That you expect to pay $55 for $175 (or even $99 for $400!) worth of meat just goes to show how greedy EVERYONE has become. Who in their right mind would offer up to 75% off of good quality food and still be able to make a living – and, keep in mind that WebPiggy and Dealfind are also making a profit. Offering ONE voucher per person at a reasonable discount (say, 20%?) would truly allow the store to get more business and and potentially build up a loyal customer base, however, these huge discounts, people buying up to 10 coupons and The Butchers offering this “deal” through multiple sites is nothing but a get rich quick scheme.

    Canad and America are rich nations, but it amazes me how cheap we are when it comes to our food. We demand cheap food (processed crap), expect to pay next to nothing for fresh meat (not to mention “organic” and “natural”) and then we’re surprised that the sausages mentioned above are garbage? When we start paying attention to quality vs. quantity and stop trying to get something for nothing, then maybe every butcher shop will carry “natural” and “organic” meat products. Until then, you get what you pay for.

  • Vekole

    As an aside – there is no excuse for a butcher to sell products labelled organic and natural (and charge the money it does)and not deliver. This is not acceptable and The Butchers should not be allowed to get away with this. My post was simply aimed at all the people who expect to get fresh meat at 75% off.

  • Tee

    $21 for 8 sausages is still high – they look like what I would buy at Denningers in Oakville for much less $$.

  • Gary

    Just to be fair Trueler, I did get the lamb and feta sausages there once and they were pretty good. Those sausages you got I think were the veal ones and I have seen them there. They look sickly and disgusting and I would never buy them, so I am not surprised you got wacky results. They had dozens of them there last time and only ground beef and chicken as usual but I settled for nothing and left. I drop by there all the time and they never have anything. I imagine it will be a few months before they get their stock up again.

    Organic and naturally raised has such a wide spectrum of definition who knows what they REALLY are.

  • dave

    there should be a class action lawsuit against the butcher and webipiggy. there is no way the butcher is providing organic meat at 75% off and giving webpiggy another 50% of the total take. and webpiggy is very aware that the butcher is not organic!

  • MLS

    This is a shame! Stores claiming to be organic should be held accountable for what they sell. And I agree with others who say that $99 for $400 of “organic” meat is TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE. Wake up people and smell the sausages. This store is selling you a dream or nightmare depending on how you see it. They can’t possibly be making a profit unless they’re selling something other than what they are advertising. CAVEAT EMPTOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Meat Eater

    Trueler’s note: This anonymous comment comes from someone registered on Dealathons (dealathons.com) internal e-mail system. It could be one of the merchants or Dealathons staff. I don’t see that their e-mail system is available for public registration. Are they going to run “The Butchers” deal soon? ;)

    Original comment:

    I would like to comment on all this hypcrisy coming out about The Butcher. What he (Marlon) is actually doing is marketing his business. Rather than pay thousands to Radio, Print & TV, he works with a deal site and only pays “discount” when he gets a customer. Now if you think it is better to spend $92,000 a month for a 4 Panel Wall at Bloor Station go ahead, but this is the new and proven best way to market your brand.

    Unfortunately it is people without jobs like yourself who have nothing better to do than to watch meat de frost (does anyone realize your taking advice from a welfare bum?!?) Thank you to the butchers for the wonderful deal of the century, I have bought 13 coupons and used 6 and I have had the best quality meant I have ever tasted especially the sausages and bacon. So give it a rest shut your mouth and be great full you have an option to save money on meat wheras some people dont know where the next meal is coming from.

  • Gary

    You tell him Marlon!

  • Marcel

    I actually went to the Butchers earlier today, and I really had no complains.
    The rib eye steak was great, and I can’t wait to devour my NY strip loin steak for tomorrow’s dinner.
    I was worried to go there initially because of all the negative comments stated earlier, but honestly, aside from the less selections from when I initially went a month ago, there was nothing to complain about. Went there, bought the steaks, used the coupon from Dealfind, and that was it.

    Honestly, for the $$$ that I paid, I had no regrets at all. Yes it was expensive ($25.99/lb for both the ribeye and NY strip loin steak) but that’s why I bought myself some coupons. Would I come back without the coupon? Maybe once in awhile for special occasions, but my point is, for the quality of meat that they offered (at least for the steaks, never tried other things there), I think it is a very good deal nonetheless.

    That’s just my 2 cents.

  • Trueler

    To be fair, I used the first voucher a long time ago well before many thousands of deals sold on TeamSave and DealFind. The meat was of great quality and delicious. Assortment was pretty good. So, decided to buy more coupons. Recent experience of the next visit to “The Butchers” I described in the post. Things changed…

    Someone may call it “Bait and Switch” deal. I called it a scam because “The Butchers” won customers confidence by providing the best quality before major deals happened. They used this confidence to promote further deals. Customers were leaving happy comments about great quality and service. It led to about 15,000 deals sold. It is obvious that it is not possible to fulfill all the orders without significant drop in quality and service. The Butchers knew about it but did not restrict the number of deals. They continued to promise the highest quality organic and naturally raised meats from Ontario farmers and exceptional customer service. But they do not deliver their promise for which customers paid. How should we call it? Trick, fraud, …?

    After all the complaints and experience of the customers shared on RFD and here, I honestly hope that “The Butchers” will switch back to provide the best quality and exceptional service soon…

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • Binky

    Someone needs to start asking just where all the “organic” meat is coming from. they used to list the farms on their site, so it shouldn’t be a problem for them to say(and a customer to call the supplier to confirm).

  • all4emma

    here are the prices for another well know organic meats operation in etobicoke…the Butchers prices are very at par to theirs:
    http://www.berettaorganics.com/products/
    the butchers prices:
    http://www.thebutchersorganic.com/onlinepricelist.pdf
    i would try one and see…the sausages you purchased look like veal ones…they always pop….they are not pork ;-)
    Germany style veal.

  • Julia

    Yesterday I used the first voucher .The meat was of great quality and delicious. Assortment was pretty good. So, decided to buy more coupons.

  • Comp

    I’ve Emailed your blog to CBC news. Hopefully that does something.

  • Anthony O.

    So I’ve been following all the twitter chat on the deal, and it’s interesting to see the differences in opinion from people’s experiences with “the butchers”. Specifically there’s a blogger who decided to do his own experiment and offers a counter argument:

    http://www.foodwithlegs.com/?p=2976

  • Trueler

    @all4emma:

    1) Isn’t Beretta Organics the place where The Butchers source their meat as daily deal sites claim? How can it be possible to re-sell the meat with more than 80% loss? I’m in doubt that any organic meat farm would sell their products to The Butchers with more than 90% discount even in bulk. Can anyone explain this phenomenon?

    2) No. Quality veal sausages in natural casings do not pop. The fact that sausages from The Butchers unnaturally expanded in the oven and shrinked when removed tells that there are a lot of food additives to increase the weight and volume of the product. Does anyone want to pay $24/kg for water, starch and other additives in some unnatural casings (I’m afraid to guess what are they made from) thinking that they are organic, natural and of the superior quality?

  • Trueler

    @Julia: Weren’t they preparing for the filming and visit of Buytopia team yesterday by providing great quality as they promise?

  • Trueler

    @Comp: Thanks. But I don’t think it will do anything other than advertising The Butchers on TV or Radio.

  • Trueler

    @Anthony O.:

    It was a good day at The Butchers yesterday since they were waiting for Buytopia visit and preparing for the show. Meat and sausages on the pictures are pretty appetizing :) I regret that I did not go there yesterday to buy some meat…

    Regarding those posts. There are many wrong assumptions made by the author about the experiment. Just a couple of them to clarify:

    - Sausages had been frozen by The Butchers, not by me. After thawing they produced more than 10% of water. They were stored in the same plastic bag provided by The Butchers. As author stated they were not properly handled by the store. Or even intentionally inflated with the water, because 50ml per pound of meat is too much

    - I took sausages from the oven and left on a table for about 15-20 minutes, not 24 hours as author assumed. And again (as in my previous comment) “The fact that sausages from The Butchers unnaturally expanded in the oven and shrinked when removed tells that there are a lot of food additives to increase the weight and volume of the product”.

    - etc…

    One more interesting thing: “Sausages were a bit saltier than usual”. It is usually a sign of Sodium Nitrite (E250 food additive) presence in the meat which is used to preserve it.

  • James

    It’s funny that you updated mentioning the manipulation of comments on Webpiggy’s discussion site. I originally posted links to redflagdeals forums in the hopes of giving people a 2nd perspective on the deal before they went ahead and spent $100.. and it exploded an opinion war! Pretty sure there were some fake comments praising The Butchers made as well, not surprised.

    When I posted the link to this blog on the discussion, it was removed stating that it was “unrelated to the deal” Ha! I reposted many times, this time with a question as they had stated, only to have it removed every time, and my account eventually deleted and my IP banned from Webpiggy.

    Now the same deal is on Dealticker, minus a discussion page. http://www.dealticker.com/_99_for__400_worth_of_organic_and_naturally_raised_meats_and_more_from_the_butchers___400_value__en_1964prod.html

    I just don’t see how they can sustain this level of demand they are getting through these $100 for $400 deals. The only thing to expect is a dramatic decrease in service, product availability, and quality…

  • Trueler

    Hi James,

    I’ve seen a lot of valuable comments removed by Webpiggy on their discussion forum. I saw yours as well :) Thanks! Respected daily deal sites should not behave in this way. It is unacceptable. Webpiggy does not care about customers at all thinking only about the profit. They already became a part of “The Butchers” scam.

    Buytopia just removed discussion board link from the deal page. They wanted to save time on removing truthful comments with real customers experience. They disinformed people. Buytopia became a part of “The Butchers” scam also.

    What will DealTicker do? Will they try to save their reputation by ceasing this deal after the feedback? Or will they continue to grab their honorarium of ~$50 (50%) per each deal and become a part of “The Butchers” scam?

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • mark

    Today’s new dealticker deal DOES have a discussion board:
    http://www.dealticker.com/blog.php/product_id/1964

  • Trueler

    Interesting update to “The Butchers” massive deals:

    Where do The Butchers “Organic meats” come from?

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • Joseph

    I saw the dealticker ad today as well.. what should these guys do? pull the deal? don’t they have like signed contracts and stuff?

  • Trueler

    Hi Joseph,

    Yes, there is “The Butchers” deal on DealTicker again, but The Butchers claims that it is NOT valid. However DealTicker encourages people to buy vouchers. See an update to this post.

    Will it be later today something like “The Butchers and DealTicker came to an agreement to provide the VERY last daily deal to the customers satisfaction”?

    However, it would be the best if DealTicker will understand the situation around The Butchers and just cease this “deal”.

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • ylsf

    I might have missed it, but, did you get your meat delivered or did you buy it in store? It is very weird how they sold you sausages like that.. Normally when product is sold frozen you would see it vacuum sealed…

    What exactly was the taping for? Why are they doing so much “filming” and closing down their store?

  • Trueler

    Hi ylsf,

    I bought all the meat in store including frozen sausages.

    I saw an update on the butchers website that they were going to be closed during the day for filming. I don’t know what was the taping for.

  • dave

    now the butcher is differentiating between different group buying sites. webpiggy customers cannot redeem vouchers on weekeds whereas buytopia customers can! why wouldnt anyone who bought from webpiggy get a full refund and buy from buytopia since the deal at buytopia is better and can be used on weeekends. shame on webpiggy for not looking out for their customers!!!!!

  • Deal Warrior

    People would be absolutely insane to buy a single advertised voucher for “Butchers” feature right now. The Butchers will be out of business inside of 6 months, and have litigation issues coming out of their wazoo! These last few deals are nothing but last attempt cash grabs….buyer beware!

  • MikeJefe

    We’re also seeing a lot of useful comments removed from Chowhound while the shills are allowed to post.

  • Jacob

    There can be only be one reason why this deal with DealTicker did not go through and that is $. The Butcher are already maximizing their potential by listing with a lot of groupbuy sites. They have sold excess of 15000 ‘vouchers’ so it is not a reason they can’t fulfill them because they have extended some listings based on popularity. Probably the commission % was not favorable as they gain experience when they dealt with new groupbuy sites. Either way something happened and the last minute The Butcher played hardball and didn’t get their way. DealTicker can probably vindicate themselves by showing the contract which they have signed. Has DealTicker listed a deal with ‘The Butcher’ before? I’m curious why ‘DealTicker’ would risk their reputation if the deal was not authorized. Companies that want to list on theses sites are dime a dozen, we have seen some unethical business practice from ‘The Butcher’, have we seen this from DealTicker? Who knows, I’m leaning on ‘The Butcher’ rescinding on their contract obligation. Their business model is not sustainable and it is obvious they cut corners on their product. I suspect they are lying through their teeth about organic products.

  • Boukis

    This deal is very similar to an old fashion pyramid scheme.
    The Butcher does the first deal and then follows on to the next deal sites to pay off the loss from the previous deal.
    There is no way a legitimate business could sustain such a blow on their brand and service, and still continue to run on more deal sites. This scheme has allowed the business owner to easily generate over $600,000 dollars in less than 3 months. There must be over 6 million dollars in liabilities circulating as vouchers.
    If he goes out of business, this will KILL the small deal sites that have already features him, since most of them would use the money they’ve generated to re-invest in their small business. There is no way they would be able to keep up with the refunds.
    This is why this deal is a scam, not because the product or service was compromised, but because there is no real legitimate business that would continue to deliberately hurt their brand with this type of marketing.

  • Upset Customer

    After doing some research they first did the group buys in early January. Over 25,000+ vouchers have been sold.

    Site Date # vouchers cost value
    Kijiji Deal 01/12/11 457 $25 $50
    Team Save ??? 712 $25 $50
    DealGetters 18/01/11 2,049 $40 $100
    WebPiggy1 19/01/11 271 $40 $100
    Buytopia1 03/02/11 1,527 $39 $100
    WebPiggy2 11/02/11 375 $50 $150
    Team Save ??? 1,162 $50 $150
    Dealfind 25/02/11 11,508 $55 $175
    Dealticker 2/28/2011 160 $29 $85
    Dealticker 2/28/2011 1,800 $55 $200
    WebPiggy3 08/04/11 2,800 $100 $400
    Buytioia2 12/04/11 2,969 $99 $400

    Total # of vouchers 25790

  • ylsf

    They are now closing during lunch too…Geez, their business practices are getting worse and worse. They are going to make it as hard as possible for people to redeem their vouchers:

    ** Due to an influx of vouchers we have decided to close the store from 11:30am-1pm weekdays to clean and restock the store. After discussions with Toronto Health we have taken precautionary measures to ensure we continue to keep up our standards around cleanliness of the store.

  • Trueler

    Thanks to all for feedback and information! I have added another small update to the post about significant changes to their coupon policy and an article in “The Globe and Mail”.

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • MikeJefe

    Yeah, close the store during lunch time and try to lay the blame on the city health department? Nice try guys, I don’t think your competitors close over lunch to remain in compliance of the health code! Shouldn’t cleanliness be a continuous operation? Maybe Toronto Health should put up a INSPECTION FAILED sign and shut you down for good….

    Chowhound moderators, shame on you for supporting these jerks.

  • Sunshine

    Nice deal, HORRIBLE service.

    Been waiting TWO weeks for a meat order, supposed to come yesterday (Friday) didn’t, supposed to come today…hasn’t. Went to the store in person twice, CLOSED DURING the normal BUSINESS hours. Phone goes to machine so you can’t talk to anyone. E-mail takes a week to get a response. Absolutely HORRID customer service.

    Edit – I was able to get through on the phone @ ~1315 and was told the driver had left with my order at 1215-1230 (30min drive at the WORST of times), spoke with “Eric” and he said if the driver didn’t arrive by 1330 to call him back and he would call the drivers father (??). It’s 1330 and I’ll give ‘em 15min…OKAY. I have called several times. @ least 6 busy signals, 8 ring-outs and 8 times to the machine. It’s 1345 and it would be laughable if it wasn’t so frustrating.

  • Sunshine

    Update…order arrived at 1430 AND THEY FORGOT HALF…UN-BE-FREAKIN-LEAVABLE…AAAAARRRRGGGGGG!

  • MikeJefe

    The Toronto Star will never expose The Butchers as scammers because it would reflect negatively on their in-house group buy site, WagJag. The Globe and Mail doesn’t have a group buy business so they (mildly) went after them.

  • MikeJefe

    I also don’t think DealTicker did anything wrong. If both they and The Butchers have a contract then both sides have to honour what was agreed to. It would be just as wrong for DT to unilaterally cancel the deal and not sell coupons as agreed to, as it is for The Butchers to unilaterally renege and not honour the coupons.

    Butchers signed the deal, DT did their part and sold the coupons, Butchers changed their mind and said “we won’t honour them.” DT got screwed so why wouldn’t they get lawyers involved to go after the scammers. If this will hasten the downfall of the Butchers through legal means, then I say the ends justify the means.

  • Trueler

    @MikeJefe: DealTicker is technically correct. The Butchers must abide the contract, as well as DealTicker.

    But in my opinion it would be much more ethical to their own customers to cease the deal immediately in the morning until clearing up the situation with The Butchers. But they continued to encourage people to spend their time on buying coupons knowing that there are huge problems with The Butchers. This is what I meant as “the worst thing” from DealTicker.

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • Gary

    So I went in to get my order today that was supposed to be ready. It has been a month and they have cancelled it twice and rescheduled to today. Needless to say they never even had a record of the order or anything I wanted anyway and said sorry too bad, place another order.

    What is the point of taking orders if they don’t even bother to fill them or notify you at all? The girl that emailed me back said “your order will be ready April 17″

    I bought a ham there from some ‘max meats ‘ in downsview It had nitrates in it and I doubt its even organic. Is there a way to tell?

  • Gary

    Which reminds me, Trueler, why not use you investigative magic on this ham I bought there today. I wonder if it really is organic. Would organic food have nitrates in it?

    http://img859.imageshack.us/i/img2277o.jpg/

  • Jacob

    @Gary Apparently there are certified labels for organic foods. However I think this businesses that offer ‘Organic’ plays on the consumer’s preference to quality meat and a way for them to double and even triple their profits without doing much if anything at all.

  • Trueler

    @Gary:

    I see Sodium Nitrite on the photo you provided. Are there nitrates also??

    Sodium Nitrite is used as a preservative. It depends how much of it is used. If you don’t feel that ham is too salty, it should be OK. But if it is too salty, it means that there is a lot of Sodium Nitrite, and it is not too good for your health. I did not check, but maybe Canadian “Certified Organic” allows some amount of Sodium Nitrite.

    If there are Nitrates – it is different…

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • Gary

    It does not say ‘Nitrates’ anywhere but it says Sodium Nitrates. When I was there they told me everything under the counter is organic. The ham was there, but you never know. I was trying to call them to find out but of course no answer and the name of the Max Meat place that it comes from is hard to track down. It does not say organic anywhere on packaging. Maybe the store is selling regular meat now as well like the brisket.

  • Trueler

    Hey Gary,

    Nitrates and Nitrites are different things. If there are just a little bit of Sodium Nitrite, it may be OK to call it “Certified Organic”. I will try to double check it later.

    Thanks!

  • MikeJefe

    Someone has been trying to post the links to Trueler on Chowhound today but the moderators keep deleting them. What are you trying to hide? Or has Marlon the Madoff paid you off too?

  • Trueler

    For those people who think that The Butchers does not claim that they sell only organic products:

    http://trueler.com/2011/04/15/where-the-butchers-organic-meats-come-from/#update3

  • Gary

    Well I just called that Max Meats place about my ham and they told me they do NOT sell any organic products. So it seems the butcher does not sell only organic meats.

    I was told ‘everything under the counter’ is organic’ This ham was under there…. but buyer beware I suppose.

  • Trueler

    Update on what kind of meat “The Butchers” gets from “Acadian Beef”:

    http://trueler.com/2011/04/15/where-the-butchers-organic-meats-come-from/#update4

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • steve glumenfeld

    You people are all losers. Your are listening to a person who has nothing better to do with his time , and is probably a jealous competitor . i have ordered from there for years and have lived all over the world and the butchers meat is second to none. Keep up the good work guys, and was probably a mistake introducing your product on the internet and letting people know our “neighbourhoods little secret”
    Regards
    Steve

  • Trueler

    @steve glumenfeld:

    The quality of all meats including beef, chicken, sausages, turkey, etc. was amazing and the taste was more than great at The Butchers before the offer on DealFind. I absolutely agree with this! Variety of produce and service were very good as well.

    Then thousands of people rushed into the store with all the coupons, and The Butchers had to decrease quality of products and services significantly trying to meet demand. Unfortunately, it was a huge mistake to introduce the product through daily deal sites in the way we all have seen…

    Regards,
    Trueler

  • Jacob

    @SteveGlumenfeld

    What is it with scammers always trying to obfuscate an issue based on facts. What is it with ‘must be competitors’ excuse? or basing your personal experience with eating around the world which makes you an ‘expert’ or some sort.

    Objectively speaking this is a disaster waiting to happen and the scammer (The Butcher) have just net over $1,000,000 on questionable non organic meat which probably don’t even pass health inspection.

  • MikeJefe

    @Steve,

    Is your real name Marlin or Marlon? And do you post on Chowhound under the name Yongeman?

  • Undisclosed

    The Butchers are in for a big surprise. Bad move on their part to not honor the last deal they signed a contract for with DealTicker. Might cost them “everything”

    There is also a rumor that DealTicker is thinking of posting the signed contract just to confirm that everything The Butchers say is false, including the ‘fact’ that their meats are organic. The Buthcers are a fraud.

  • Trueler

    Hey Undisclosed,

    How could it be that DealTicker knowingly featured fraud on their website? Could you explain this to us please?

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • Undisclosed

    What I was saying Truler was that if DealTicker proves or can prove that they had a signed contract that would show that the Butchers are lying about their meaet being organic since the butchers say they had not agreement in place to begin withe for the DealTicker. I never said that DealTicker knew that the meat was not organic.

  • C P

    I’ve been going to The Butchers for years and am so disappointed in the quality and supply of product in the store since these deals came about. I purchased 3 of the deals based on my positive previous experience.

    BUT NOW!!!!!!!

    1) There is rarely any product other than chicken breasts
    2) The store is now closed during lunchtime
    3) Can’t redeem vouchers on weekends
    4) Never anything in the coolers
    5) Questionable sources of meat

    It sucks because now I’m stuck using my vouchers to purchase overpriced questionably sourced chicken breasts because meat other than chicken breasts doesn’t seem to be available during times when vouchers can be redeemed.

    Only buy the deals if you want to purchase questionably sourced overpriced chicken breasts.

    Uugh!

    C P

  • Trueler

    What’s next with The Butchers? Re-branding!

    Marlin’s Fish Shop, Marlons Butchery, Marlon’s Meat

    Trueler

  • MikeJefe

    Keep at them, Trueler. Nobody talks about them on Chowhound anymore (other than Yongeman the shill) since everybody knows the moderators are in on the scam and will delete any negative posts about Butchers/Marlon.

    When Marlon pulls the trigger and closes down “The Butchers” only to reopen under another name and refuse to honor the deals, how many deal sites are going to be suing him? I guess he’ll be spending more money on lawyers than on new fish stores….

  • Gary

    They don’t even answer their phones any more. I have had four orders now places and when I got there to pick them up they had no record of them and nothing ready.

    What’s the point really of offering to take orders if you cant and don’t fill them?

    This place is FAIL

  • Real Person

    WOW, we all bought the coupon this great we can save money at a time like this. Its very misleading. We were really excited while waiting for our steaks. when we finally got in, the staff WAS RUDE. They have NO CUSTOMER SERVICE. They make their rules up as they go. When I questioned this, like anyone else would. I WAS TOLD THAT THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO NOT SERVE ME. WHAT, I drove for almost 45mins to get here than you tell me I am only ALLOWED TO use 50bucks from my coupon. Im sorry but you should put all these restrictions on your deal posts. Oh thats right if you told the truth NO ONE WILL GIVE YOU MONEY. For all you people that have nice things to say must either work for them or be related. I am a very easy going person, takes allot to tick me off. BUT THIS IS UNREAL HOW THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT. THEY HAVE OUR MONEY SO WHAT DO THEY CARE. THIS IS NOT OVER, I will fight, they can not do this to us.

  • Sadams

    Go back to Dealfind and demand a refund. Refunds are offered for 30 days, but you can make the argument that you can’t get your orders filled (no reponse to phone/email), terms that you bought the deal under have changed (can’t use on weekends or lunch time, now can’t use more than 1 voucher at a time), and there is no meat in the store when you go in (unless they are filming). The Butchers gets 50% of income generated by the deals – clearly the deals were all posted to get working capital to finish the fish store. Can’t see how existing customers are still happy with the supply & service …

  • MikeJefe

    RealPerson: I wish you thought to have a camcorder or smartphone in video mode record all this. That would have made for some viral YouTube material for this blog and others!

  • Bernard Madoff

    Marlon Madoff – the apple didn’t fall far from the tree.

    My Son has learned the great art of the Ponz. He has literally pump, pump, pumped this business up to a level that is unsustainable. And you stupid poor grazing sheep are too stupid to notice he has been dump, dump, dumping along the way.

    Soon he will be gone, with your money and your meat. And oh, whatever will you do?
    Oh shill pumper – what will you do to the poor hippy who spent 20% of his weekly earning on Marlon’s scheme?
    Oh shill pumper – you are a weak verison of Madoff. You are not as smart as Marlon and that is why you work for him.

    As i write this from the fed. Take my advice. Ask for a refund and leave. There’s no party here at the meat store.

    The only party is in Marlon’s meat makers market account.

  • Gary

    Don’t know if you guys still follow this thread but this is a good one. I go in this morning, line up of about 8 people at 10am. And they tell us all, once we get in and order, that there is a $25 cap on all orders. The Sh#t hits the fan and people start going bonkers. Some woman came from oakville, another has a birthday party tonight. One guy tries to buy a steak and it is $30 and they give him a hard time about it and finally give in. What a joke. They say one coupon limit when you buy the deal, and then when you get in to pull this crap? One girl said it was because they were so busy because of Easter they were running out of meat. The selection there was low but not non existent as usual.

    This guy Marlon makes up these ‘rules’ as he goes a long and violates his coupon stipulations. What a jerk and I feel sorry for the people that go in today.

  • dealman

    The Competition Bureau is the place you should direct your complaints. They will put a legal team to enforce any advertisements that The Butchers have made. They also have the power to fine violators of the Competition Act; and they frequently exercise this power, as they should.
    http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca

  • Barbara

    Well, I placed an on line order a few weeks ago, got a phone confirmation for delivery. Today was to be the day – it is now 5 p.m. – sat at home all day – no delivery – can’t get through to the order line or store. I am so angry!!!

  • Gary

    Dude, I have been in several times for my orders and they even call me now that it is ready and when I go in to pick it up, OOPS SORRY WE HAVE NOTHING.

  • Barbara

    My order arrived at 7 p.m. or should I say a joke of an order – not sure why i even put an order in for what arrived. I thought by ordering 2 weeks in advance, my order would be filled in the morning with what I asked for and delivered during the day. Well, the order came with note stating they were out of Tbones, rib eyes, veal chops, cornish hen etc – I did get ground beef, chicken breasts and chili which I never ordered. Really worth staying home for all dat!!!! What a scam.

  • Questor

    Update,

    I have been greatly distressed reading this blog and the discussion at redflagdeals. I would seem to be one of many people who have been duped by this “scam”. A friend of mine ended up contacting Webpiggy directly and corresponded with Harlod Moore. He went so far as to find out who is actually supplying the Butcher at this moment and it turns out that Field Gate – a very large naturally raised and organic producer / processor as well as Markham Quality Meats – a source of certified organic chick, Halal and non-organic lamb are. It was easy enough to confirm with Field Gate that the Butcher is a regular customer receiving weekly deliveries, they are also listed on Field Gate’s website as a place to purchase their products, and the company my wife works for actually sells product to Markham Quality Meats (their business is scale systems) and easily confirmed that they also service the Butcher with certified organic chicken. Now I am not saying that these are the only suppliers that the Butcher is getting product from but from my inquiry it would seem that The Butcher may simply be overwhelmed by biting off more than they can chew. On the other hand should they be selling such a garbage sausage loaded with fillers? So I guess the bottom line is The Butcher has not done much to build consumer confidence but from my inquiries and the assistance of webpiggy this is what I can confirm.

    Webpiggy has gone out of their way to answer our questions and was even willing to refund me for the vouchers purchased. What I can say for sure is that Webpiggy has demonstrated an integrity that is becoming rare in the business world.

  • Trueler

    The Butchers has done a lot to build consumer confidence before they set a “North America World Record” on DealFind. They did their best by providing good quality and service. After over 11 thousand deals were sold on DealFind they have changed… you know the story… that’s why it is called a scam.

    Field gate organics can’t provide so much of organic food to The Butchers. Just take a look at their prices in supermarkets… it can be just a very small portion…

    Webpiggy demonstrated outrageous willful negligence to the customers during their last deal with The Butchers. They knew what was going on with The Butchers. Webpiggy were intentionally removing all the valuable comments about quality and service on their discussion board. They misinformed people who were not aware about The Butchers behavior. Is this called integrity? Webpiggy has blacken the reputation of group buying industry by their unacceptable behavior.

  • Griffin

    Have a look at this post to see why The Butcher’s and other deals like it are so screwed up:

    http://oppugno.com/blog/2011/05/12/the-butchers-and-the-broken-groupon-model/

  • Questor

    Trueler,

    That is possible, could these deals have been in place prior to the results from Dealfind were known? Or are these offers set up on the spur of the moment and can be arranged within days? Why did Webpiggy continue with the offer if they were aware of the situation? I do not profess to know what Webpiggy’s knowledge was prior to the offer and I cannot speak for their blog moderation either. I am not denying any factual information provided by yourself or others here on this blog.
    But when I can contact a company and tell them my concerns and they address them as well as accommodate my choice of recourse within days then I would call that acting in the interest of your clientele and demonstrating integrity. This is my experience with Webpiggy presented to you all as it occurred. It does not invalidate any others’ unbiased observations or experiences.
    FYI – Field Gate is a large co-op of Canadian organic produces with a significant clientele. I believe (notice I am not saying it is fact) based upon what I know of the company that they are capable of producing very large quantities of organic meats, obviously The Butcher is completely incapable of doing the same as has been well attested to by the vast majority of coupon holders. I imagine their facilities and manpower will not permit such large accommodations.

    So what is the next step Trueler?

  • Trueler

    Hi Questor,

    The Butchers deal has been featured about 10 times on 6 daily deal websites. Sure, they could have agreements prior to the results from DealFind were known. But Marlon had a long time experience and he perfectly knew how many orders the store can handle without quality loss. Restrictions must be set, let’s say 50 vouchers per deal totaling to 500. This is quite reasonable number. But The Butchers, caring only about their profit, intentionally did not set any restrictions and sold over 20,000 coupons. This happened not by accident.

    Webpiggy continued with the offer because they care only about their own profit, not about customers, not about businesses. Every group buying site must do a research of the business right before featuring the deal. They got a lot of complaints. So, they knew the situation about The Butchers, but decided to make more money and let their customers down.

    I tell you truth. The reason why Webpiggy addressed your issue by making a refund is definitely not acting in the interest of their clientele or demonstrating integrity as you think. Webpiggy is acting solely in the interest of their own, because they are afraid. Many voucher holders are ready to file disputes with their credit card companies if daily deal websites do not refund them for The Butchers deals. This is the reason. It is obvious that the company which wants to stay in business does not want it to happen.

    Your experience is getting a refund from Webpiggy for scam deal. Thanks for sharing it. The reason why you got it is described in the above paragraph.

    Thanks for information about Field Gate. I knew that, and completely agree with your related paragraph. But don’t forget that The Butchers have to sell the meat with approximately 85% discount (actual coupon discount + a fee for being featured on group buying sites). Did The Butchers have over 90% margin for the meats before all the deals? Does Field Gate sell meat to The Butchers for cents per pound? Organic chicken for 69 cents per pound… Organic sirloin steak for $1.59/pound… Organic Pork Loin Chop for $1.19/pound… etc… Taking into account operational costs, prices should be even less.

    Webpiggy were removing negative comments from their discussion board when the deal was running. DealFind closed comments right after deal was over. Buytopia removed entire forum. This is how they care about their clients and show integrity…

    I do not exactly understand what you mean by “the next step” in your question. If you need some information, please clarify.

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • Gary

    lol

    Hi,
    Sorry for the delayed response, we have been extremely busy. Unfortunately email orders for delivery and pick up are booked until June 23rd, therefore we are no longer taking orders until after this date. If you are able to come into the store to select your desired items this can be done at any time. We are open Tuesday to Friday 8am to 8pm to voucher customers. Please resubmit this order after this date, and an email will be sent to you to confirm when your order will be ready.
    I am very sorry for the inconvenience.
    The Butchers

  • Jacob

    @The Butcher:

    Awesome you found the site. How about telling us who your CURRENT organic supplier(s) are so we can verify. There seems to be some info that this site have found that makes it questionable. Would love to be see some clarification.

    Specifically the origin of your meat.

  • Trueler

    Jacob,

    I think Gary posted a response from The Butchers when he was trying to place an order. Gary is not “The Butcher” if you are referring to that comment :)

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • Jacob

    @Trueler

    AHhh thanks and I thought we could get some clarification. Oh well.

  • Julia

    I really enjoyed the work you have done on these articles. The meat I’ve tasted from the Butchers so far has been good quality, but good investigating!

  • CarrieA

    I purchased the $55 voucher and had no problem redeeming it on weekends. The meat (steak & chicken) was delicious. The staff was pleasant, and service was courteous. No complaints. Glad I took the chance.

  • Ronnie

    I managed to get 4 peoples money back totaling $800, This was with webpiggy. Would be willing ti try to get a few other people money back.

  • Lilly

    RE Gary’s comment on the email he received May 12 at 2:44 – I received the same exact email on May 12 at 2:54. I placed my online order April 26 & never received a confirmation reply within 5 days or at all. Now I am told (via email) to reorder after June 23rd. I need meat now & they have my money. Also I’ve been unsuccessful in contacting them by phone. I don’t want to drive for an hour to find out they do not have meat or that they won’t honor the voucher for the full amount. This is not what was advertised. I’ve requested a refund from Webpiggy & will let you know how that goes. It was good to read on your blog that some people have been successful with refunds for this no-deal.

  • Karen Brown

    I have been in twice to redeem my webpiggy deal. First time told I could only spend $75 worth of my $400 and second time $60. I was very frustrated as I was hosting a dinner and there is nowhere it is printed on the deal that there is a limit. In the end it actually didn’t matter much because the first time they barely had anything left even though it was mid afternoon after their “lunch closing” and second time they had NOTHING!! I was told to email an order in so this evening I did.

    This is the auto reply message I received from them “Unfortunately email orders for delivery and pick up are booked until June 23rd; therefore we are no longer taking orders until after this date. Please feel free to come by The Butchers and select your desired items. This can be done during our voucher hours. We are open from Tuesday to Friday 10am-11:30am and 1am to 6pm. If you wish to place your online order, please resubmit your order to thebutchers2636@yahoo.com after June 23rd. An email response will be sent to your account withing 10 business days.

    For any inquiry regarding our products and service please email butchersinquiry@yahoo.ca

    We are very sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.”

    What a total SCAM! I am looking forward to when I finally can use my voucher up so I will NEVER have to return to their store. They have lost myself and many other customers I know who were previous regulars!

  • Vikki R

    I’m sorry, I don’t usually blog but I just have to say that Meat Eater’s comment was perfect:

    (p.s. I’ve redeemed 2 vouchers from BuyTopia and have been incredibly impressed both times, by the quality of meat and the nice service at the counter).

  • liz

    I placed an online order over 3 weeks ago and never got a response or a delivery so…
    After checking The Butchers hours on their website, I went across town last Thursday to redeem my voucher. I arrived at 10:30 to find a sign on the door that said “Closed until 1:00 due to meat shortage”
    I paid for parking and waited. I watched DOZENS of people stroll up to the door, attempt to get in and walk away annoyed. At 12:00 they opened a window to allow some fresh air in. The staff started letting select people (people they knew) in one at a time, locking to door behind them. I approached a staff member and spoke to him the through the window, explaining I had been there for 2 hours and had also waited 3 weeks for my online order which never showed up. He immediately escalated and said I could come in but only to use $60 of my $175 voucher. When asked why he would change the conditions of my voucher, he said “Because I can and if you don’t like it, get a refund” and instructed his staff member to close the window. I’m disgusted with this business ~ get a refund while you can!

  • Nikki

    We’ve been waiting to use our voucher and have already receive the “ORDER AFTER JULY 23rd” email, so we went in today, excited to FINALLY redeem and were greeted by a rude man (the owner I imagine) and a sign on the door that basically says “Coupon holders get lost” until further instructions online regarding times for redemption. The poor girls that work there…
    Apparently there will now be security guards at the front and EVEN SHORTER hours for redemption, such as in the evenings only!! So disappointed. But not surprised. I have a strong feeling this ‘butcher’ is going down in the not so far future. I 100% regret buying this scam and would like my money back – will try and seek redemption from Buytopia.

  • Dave

    I bought a $100 voucher for the butcher for $400 worth of meat. the first time i went to redeem it i was only allowed to redeem it for $60 worth of meat. the next time i went in i wasnt even allowed inside the store because i had a voucher. troubled by this, i called the website i had purchesed my voucher requesting a refund. they did not want to do anything about it and said i should keep trying to redeem my voucher. they also used the fact that i had partially used $60 of the voucher as an excuse; not to refund. this really angered me. so i called back and asked to speak to their legal department or manager. obviously they did not have a legal department buy some guy took the call and said he was a manager. i told the guy about my experience and that i was going to file a case with the Small claims court for the full $400 value of the voucher as that is what is stated on the voucher. i said i would also sue for my time, transportation, etc. the guy immediately offered to refund my credit card in full!!! the lesson here is anyone who has a voucher and wants to get a refund should go ahead and do so ASAP. do not accept a web credit for future purchases!! ask for a full refund back to your credit card. if the website where u bought the coupon refuses, simply take the matter to small claims court for the full value of the voucher. the fee to file a case in small claims court is very reasonable (usually $50) and there are small claims courts throughout the GTA. the best thing is you do not need a lawyer to file a claim in small claims court! group buying websites will never want go to court because they know they dont have a case and they would have to offer a full $400 refund if they do go to court. also if there is a single ruling against them (which i’m sure there will be very soon)it will open the floodgates and set a precedent for several lawsuites.

  • Sasals

    I bought 4 $100 voucher for $400 worth for The Butcher. As I did not live close by the store, I went one Sunday to check out the meat quality and planned to order online for delivery. It was a Sunday morning, just after they opened the store, but there was nothing to select, some whole chickens, chicken breasts & thighs, ground beef, some pork chops may be. No steak at all. The little boy told me the compressor was broken down and they did not get their delivery and was sorry about that. After reading some posts, it seemed they like to use this as an excuse.

    The Butcher also kept changing the store hours, rules to order and redeem coupons. All of a sudden their website became one page. I placed my order online around end April and so far I got no reply/confirmation at all.

    Something is going wrong and I don’t want to lose my $400, so I e-mailed webpiggy for refund and they did that right away.

    Just check The Butcher website today and they will not honour any voucher until May 27. Store hours changed again and there will be police present in the store.

    On my voucher, it said $50 towards Marlin’s Fish Shop, which will be open in early May. Today is May 25 and where is Marline’s Fish Shop!!

    Yes, they sold more coupons than they can handle. But they totally aware of it and purposely doing it too. Now money is in their pocket and they can set whatever rules they like for redeeming the coupons.

    What a scam!!

  • Frank

    I bought Dealfind coupons for The Butchers months ago ($55 for $175 of meat). Due to their various and ever-changing restrictions I have not even been able to redeem one full coupon. Today I learn they are now only accepting coupons from 6:30-9:30 pm (starting May 31). Until now I have been very patient, but this is a step too far. They are required to accept the vouchers according to the original conditions.

    I have contacted a law firm about starting a class action lawsuit against The Butchers and all the group-buy firms that have sold vouchers for them. Stay tuned.

  • Sadams

    Get your refunds while you can – Dealfind refunded all of the vouchers I had purchased (I had bought a bunch for gifts). When dealing with any of the web groups that offered the various deals, you only have to state that The Butchers has changed the terms under which you bought the deal. You’ll save a lot of time – I guarantee he won’t have any more selection of meat any time you check! It was a greedy move on the store’s part – likely to fund the fish store. And it’s alienated thousands of customers – and should be studied as a case of what can go wrong with web deals. Marlon (owner) thinks it’s okay to yell at and abuse customers – a new concept in marketing!

  • Sasals

    New hours for vouchers redemption 6:30pm to 9:30 pm. They don’t have selection during the day. How can that help to resolve the issue. Or they are trying to tell all voucher holders that your vouchers are useless now.

    Try to get your refund ASAP.

    Look at what they said on their website:

    Due to the overwhelming success of our vouchers we have encountered numerous issues in our store with the behaviour of voucher customers. Our staff have been verbally and physically abused. We have met with police to ensure this behaviour does not continue. Because of this we will have police presence at the store beginning next Tuesday May 31st.

    They told the world they were the victim, voucher buyers were to be blamed!!
    Is it a joke! Wondering why no media disclose this whole scam.

  • Mike

    Allow us to join the chorus of former regular customers of the Butchers who have been totally alienated. We also purchased a couple of the Dealfind vouchers. We have now been told that the terms of the vouchers have been unilaterally changed. If anyone is organizing a class action lawsuit you have our support. This is greed and incompetence gone wild.

  • Don

    I agree with many that this all sounds fishy (no-pun intended). Why would any sound business continue to run deals, if you couldn’t even satisfy the prior runs? Bernard Madoff above said it right, looks like a Ponzi scheme.

    Just like many people, I went the day after the deal from Dealfind. The place was crammed and choatic. Lucky, I went early and they still have quite a few things left. I purchased a whole chicken, some legs and breasts and some NY Striploins. The chicken wasn’t too bad but not as flavourful or juicy as Cumbraes which cost less or even McEwans which carries Mennonite Chicken @ $4.99/lb. The steaks were comparable to meat from large chain supermarkets. However, for that price it’s subpar for my standards. Wet aged and tasteless, hence higher margin. Don’t let the dry aged sign and the Prime Rib aging in the fridge throw you off. If you want to know what a real steak should taste and look like go to Cumbrae’s. For the same price, it’s naturally raised and dry aged for 35+ days.

    And of course, I was greedy and had bought a large amount of coupons even against the better judgement of my wife… “Yes dear, you are right.” So when I went back for more, like everyone else I was shocked to see they changed their terms. Going to see about a refund for the remainder.

  • Gary

    I heard they set up a booth near the neighbourhood fun fair today and were selling hot dogs and hamburgers there for cash. Of course the store was out of hot dogs and hamburgers for coupon holders. This was one big ponzi scam from the beginning and like Don says, my wife was also right. These guys make all sorts of stuff up when I call and excuses galore. Also, the people I have got on the phone sound like 14 year old girls on drugs and I can’t get a straight answer out of them either. This guy is exploiting like mad.

  • Smeh

    I have been reading all of the posts and while I somewhat comforted in not being alone in my frustration in getting things resolved, it unfortunately doesn’t make me any less angry about this situation.

    My own situation is that I placed my order online, received confirmation of delivery and after waiting for most of the day for the delivery, only to be told that they couldn’t fill my whole order.

    After multiple attempts at this, I turned back to Buytopia who is the group that I purchased my vouchers from. They of course, do have a refund policy.

    I spoke and e-mailed a “Ryan” from Buytopia as well as their customer support on May 17th, May 24th and May 30th looking for either a resolution or, to have a refund processed. On the first 2 occasions he assured me that he would assist in getting my order fulfilled. On the last I just asked for a refund. I mentioned that I would be contacting Visa to have the charges disputed if they can’t.

    To date, no products and no refund.

    Well, it is now May 31st, and I just got off the phone with CIBC Visa who has just informed me that they are not able to dispute the charges with Buytopia – that I would need to get them to refund me. I did explain (or rather attempted to, the CIBC Customer Service Rep wasn’t interested in listening to the full explanation but instead cut me off to give me the CIBC policy and view point even when I explained that it didn’t make sense.) I further explained that the charges were in fact fraudulent that Buytopia advertised and sold something that they have failed to deliver. According to this CIBC Service Rep, it isn’t fraud because I gave them my credit card and they provided me with a voucher. Of course, I supplied the card in good faith in exchange for goods which I trusted would be forthcoming. If you purchase something that is to be mailed and you don’t receive it they will then dispute the charge. Why not in this instance? In that case you do get an order confirmation via e-mail (ie. a vouher).

    At this point, I want to take my example to the papers – can anyone recommend where would be a good avenue? I also want to mention how unhelpful CIBC Visa was with this whole matter.

  • mark

    Smeh, you can contact this person as I believe they are going to do a story on it.

    Heba Aly
    Producer
    The Current
    CBC Radio – Toronto
    Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
    Desk: +1-416-205-3390
    Cell: +1-647-702-4322
    heba.aly@cbc.ca
    http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent

  • Stewart l

    This butcher is a thief, a fraud, a scam artist and a total asshole. He should be shot for what he’s done. Time make him pay!

  • Has anyone given thought to a class-action lawsuit against the deal sites and The Butchers (and possibly Marlon himself)? My wife and I purchased four vouchers from BuyTopia and it’s been an absolute joke thus far trying to redeem them. What’s worse is that a co-worker of mine purchased two vouchers from BuyTopia based on my recommendation, and she can’t get anything.

    My wife has called BuyTopia for a full refund, but we were asked to put it in writing and they will investigate the matter. I am now in the process of writing BuyTopia, but if that fails, I would like to proceed with a class-action lawsuit against all the parties involved. Would anyone else be interested in pursuing legal action against The Butchers and the deal sites?

    Tony

  • hmmm

    do not worth $10.99/pound
    do not worth $24/kg

  • jeztash

    Anyone selling theirs?
    I think I’d be willing to buy, their steak was not so nice, but I love their chicken wings!

  • Stewart l

    I am also entertaining the class action route. Also keep in mind that the websites that sold everyone a voucher are actually 100% liable. Any websites or butchers “policy” is overruled by law. Plain and simple. In Canada, when you pay for any goods or services you are legally protected and if those goods or services are unavailable, withheld, or denied for any reason beyond the buyers control the seller must offer a full refund. This has been a well known scam for a few months mow and any website selling coupons for this butcher since being exposed is now additionally liable for fraud.

    Here are just a few criminal charges the butcher is guilty of:

    -Knowingly selling fraudulent vouchers.
    -customers paid for goods not received.
    -Changing redemption rules thereby making redemption impossible.
    -Raiseing prices to profit unfairly .
    -Selling inferior products different from advertisement.
    -Stress and of course resulting damages.

    All it takes is a simple fileing, let’s take this guys home and buisness and protect our fellow torontonians.

  • Rosie

    Hey, did anyone go up last night for the new hours with security? Curious how it went. Decided it wasn’t worth the drive…

  • Polly

    The website now change the time to only Thur & Fri 6:30 to 9:30pm since Jun 2 to redeem the voucher so I went there on Friday June 3. I arrived there around 8:15pm and the store was already closed. Just want to advise everyone, don’t waste your time.

  • Gary

    I think we are the ones who should be calling the cops.

  • Teresa

    I’ve had the same bad experiences with Buytopia. They will not answer any emails or telephone calls regarding a voucher refund from the Butchers.

    And my Butchers delivery has been cancelled twice.

    If people are planning on taking legal action, what would be the next step that we as a group can take?

    Thanks!

  • MikeJefe

    CBC Radio’s The Current covered this story. Worth a listen:

    http://www.cbc.ca/video/news/audioplayer.html?clipid=1972834249

  • Sonya

    I bought the $99 for $400 worth of meat. Before purchasing the voucher I called and asked if they would deliver to Georgetown they said yes for a $5.00 fee. I decided to purchase the voucher. I emailed my order waited a few weeks, I then received an email saying that they will not deliver to GTown. I call and call and finally got a hold of Marlon he said he would deliver no problem. After a few more weeks had past I called again, again and again, when someone would answer they told me that I had to contact head office to get my order. I went on the butchers site and ordered on line as well hearing nothing. I called head office several times and no one would answer. I kept calling the main store and got a hold of a women and asked her if I can come down and pick up my order (Thursday) and she said no problem. I drove from GTown to Toronto first thing in the morning I arrived when they opened only to find a note on the door saying that Vouchers cannot be redeemed until 6:30pm Friday. The women opened the window and told me that I was not aloud in the store especially with my daughter and that it was a police manner. I asked to speak to Marlan and brought a copy of the email, police were there, people very angry that they will not be honouring the vouchers, police were going to lay trespassing charges OMG!!!! It was bad, I was finally able to get in, speak to Marlon and he let me redeem my voucher all of it, but when I left I did not recieve $400 worth of meat, I had 2 bags of food. Whole chichen $25.00, 3 lbs of ground chicken/beef $35.00, bacon 1 lb $24.00/3 spareribs $105.00 I did receive some chicken legs, breakfast saugage. these are just examples I was so glad to get out of there but what a rip off!!! There was no selection at all, no steaks, hambergers, duck etc…I will never buy one of these vouchers again!!

  • MikeJefe

    If you listen to the CBC Radio segment, it seems Marlon suddenly “plays nice” when he realizes the media is there recording everything. So if you want to redeem a coupon, hold a microphone, have an accomplice carry a camcorder, wear fake but realistic looking press badges (to be funny, put “The Onion News Network” logo on your badges and equipment!)…

  • AG

    Worked at The Butchers”.Marlon Pather is a SCAM..His meat was never organic or naturally raised.He buys his meat in some chinese wholesalers,boneless breast for $1.99/lb and sells it organic @ $13.99/lb.Buys some of his meat at local supermarkets (metro,sobeys,no frills,etc.etc.},re sells it to his store.I hope he’ll go down this time.

  • Bernard Madoff

    OH MY YOUNG CHILDREN!

    I have been telling you for MONTHS to get out of this.

    I listened to my Son, Marlon on the CBC today crying like a little ladyboybitch. Made me so ashmamed of him.

    Leave him alone, let him get away with this. He needs to make money like his father did!

    The only way our Ponzi-Marlon Madoff scam is if you keep buying more and more and give up. Your money is gone – it has died and disappeared into money heaven.

    Do not cry. Everything will be okay! Marlon, my son, has bought a new store across the street and transferred over all assets to a new corporation!!!

    Amazing!!!

    Oh poor bagholder what will you do when The Butchers closes down?
    Oh stupid bagholder what will you do when there is no money left to refund?
    Oh idiot consumer what will you do when your Credit Card company refuses to refund your money even thought people told you a month ago to get a refund??

    Whatever will you do Butcher Pumpers??

    Marlon is incompetent, but he has broken a legal contract and all without a huff and a legal puff?

    Amazing. Such stupid people on Yonge. They are so Yonge and Naive.

    If I were in your position, oh stupid consumer, I would call my credit card company immediately and tell them goods have not been delivered by the Deal site company and the Butchers.

    Do not deal with such dishonest and dishonourable people again. Marlon looks, sounds, and acts dumb.

    Call your Dealfind company and request a refund, followed by calling your credit card company for a refund.

    If you do not do this, You will lose your money.
    Do not cry then. It will be too late.
    And nobody will care, because you will be just another stupid bagholder.

  • Trueler

    I thought all the information about meat quality at The Butchers, about outrageous service, about “organic/natural” sources of their meats, etc., will drive people just to get a refund from deal companies and forget about it. However, there are a lot of people who still want to get “organic” meat from this deal… Well. It is everyone’s choice. I’m not forcing all coupon holders to return vouchers. Everyone who still wants to “make a try” can definitely do this.

    I think Ellen Roseman from Toronto Star did it absolutely right by not going to The Butchers store trying to redeem her coupon: “To tell the truth, I’m nervous about going into the store”. It would be just a waste of time and nerves going there without a microphone or video camera. Going there as a representative of mass media may just bring a story as Sean O’Shea from Global Toronto Consumer SOS did. I think it did not add any value to the resolution of the problem.

    The story on Cosumer SOS did not cover the major issue about quality of their meat. Maybe I missed it? Sean also advised at the end to get a refund from daily deal companies. But he did not mention how difficult it is, and that Webpiggy, Buytopia and credit card companies even refuse to issue any refunds (there are already several cases of refusals reported).

    The story on CBC The Current was pretty interesting and informative. Thanks for covering this! Marlon was behaving as he was supposed to behave. Not admitting anything and blaming customers… The best thing he could do…

    Claiming by Gary from DealFind that they rely on the merchant to have an ability to serve all the coupon holders without any quality loss just does not make any sense. Absolutely. $2 million worth of organic meat sold just on DealFind. A lot before. How it can be handled? DealFind knew that (could easily calculate before committing the deal). Maybe they are relying that 30% of the voucher holders will forget about it, and these money will be used to refund persistent customers?

    When I used my second voucher to The Butchers and got the meat of the worst quality, I’ve almost immediately asked deal company for refunds. They agreed. It was a long time ago when deal companies still had money from the deal. Then they paid to The Butchers. I’m not sure if they have anything left… Probably it is the reason why Webpiggy and Buytopia refuse to make refunds to the customers.

    Credit card companies won’t help also, because they claim that the product (voucher) has actually been delivered. They send customers to sort things out with deal companies and The Butchers.

    Risk of just loosing the value you’ve paid for the coupons increases every day.

    Regards,
    Trueler

  • ST

    they’ve cut hours down to 2 days a week now, that’s 6 hours per week where you get a chance to buy table scraps. They’ve sold roughly 15000 coupons, that means the Butchers has to redeem approx 48 vouchers PER HOUR, assuming you could even redeem $400 in one shot which we know is not happening lol Run for the hills and demand your money back NOW!!!

  • Gary

    I think technically the deal is over anyway. I mean you can’t get close to the store for the 1 hour they are open thurs or fri and then they run out of meat fast and close early. Its just the days old meat. I had to wack the steak kabobs I got last time with a steel mallet for 15 minutes to be able to eat it as a steak sandwich.

    Now he claims he will be closing for ‘renovations’ I think we all know what that means…. For anyone to crash and burn their reputation like he did to all the customers in the GTA, I do not think you can come back from that.

    This store will close soon and re-open across the road as a Butcher that also sells fish.

  • MikeJefe

    That or he’s hiding the money offshore so that if/when he gets sued or claims bankruptcy nobody can seize it.

  • Gerrard B.

    You should really do your research. Although people think starch is an inorganic compound, it’s actually not, it’s full of organic molecules, secondly, the only problem they’ve had with the coupons is the fact that people don’t know when they can redeem them because they don’t bother to check online. This whole page is just one big lie. This page is the scam.

  • Jessica Lynch

    Um.. You do realize that the sausages only exploded because you do didn’t slit them like you’re supposed to. You’re just trying to make the business look bad for some random reason.

  • Trueler

    @ Gerrard B.:

    Really?! Please do your own research first ;)

    Petroleum is full of organic molecules as well. Would you like it to be added to your food? It’s purely organic!

    Rubber is also an organic compound! Maybe it is the reason why The Butchers meat is so tough?! Someone from there should have really good skills in chemistry…

    Actually “the only problem they’ve had with the coupons” is the fact that there is NO way to redeem coupons and get what was promised.

    Thanks,
    Trueler

    P.S.: Do not mix up terms organic food and organic compound!

  • Trueler

    @ Jessica Lynch:

    Am I supposed to slit raw sausages? You’d better teach The Butchers how to make them, rather than me how to cook…

    Good sausages in natural casings do not explode even if you don’t slit them.

    Maybe you can advice me what did I have to do so those sausages would not shrink and wrinkle and get really disgusting look when done?

    Again, it never happens with good sausages as well.

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • Bernie Madoff

    Oh my Stupid Children.

    Stupid Butcher Pumper Shills!

    Go eat an inorganic sausage.

    Marlon Madoff has transferred assets to a new corporation!
    So Brilliant!

    You dumb customers will be broke as a joke soon!

    I cannot wait to laugh in your face!

    Contact your credit card companies immediately and tell them you were fraudulently sold goods/vouchers that were not received.

    They will refund your money immediately.
    24 people on other websites have confirmed this.
    I want this list to grow!

    Buytopia is a scam. They are on the run – refund your money immediately!

    If you do not – do not come online and whine about anything in 2 months – I will laugh in your face.

    Look at me – people say I allegedly lost money! They are liars. I am not a crook. I am a good man.

  • Gerrard B.

    You can redeem the vouchers. They clearly say Thursday and Friday between 6:30pm and 9:30pm. Maybe other people should do their research first before they fly off the handle because something isn’t the most convenient for them.

  • Trueler

    @ Gerrard B.,

    No, you can’t really redeem the vouchers even on Thursday and Friday between 6:30pm and 9:30pm

  • Gerrard B.

    And @Bernie Madoff – seriously? Marlon is simply opening a new store so he can offer a wider range of seafood to his customers. Also, his last name isn’t Madoff as you said in your post. Are you sure you’re talking about the right person? Maybe we should laugh in your face.

  • Gary

    I got some sausages there a few weeks ago.

    They all blew out the ends and dribbled out onto my bbq and I lost a lot of the meat through the grill. Every single one is like this of the 10 I bought. Somehow I guess they have to be tied properly and they were not. Made in a rush I suppose. I could not slit them because any pressure pushed more meat out the ends. They were also REALLY REALLY FATTY, lots of flames.

    Taste wise, they actually were pretty good, what was left of them but I was sad so much was wasted. The membrane kept shrinking when it was cooking and pushing out all the meat.

  • Sasals

    @Gerrard B

    Did you buy the coupons and tried to redeem them? Here is to share your experience, good or bad.

    Why more negative comments over positive ones.
    Don’t come here and bull shit please.

  • Gerrard B.

    I have bought and redeemed vouchers many times, and had absolutely no problem with anything. Not the meat, the service. Nothing. You CAN redeem their vouchers only on Thursday and Friday between 6:30pm and 9:30pm. I’ve asked Marlon myself many times to confirm.

  • Gerrard B.

    Also, just thought you’d like to know, they get their meat straight off the bone, and from there they cut it and put it in the display counter, so how can they put additives in their meat? I’ve seen their process before. As for the “scam”, it started off as a promotion that they got a bit excited about and put the vouchers on multiple websites and it got out of control when too many people bought them and tried to redeem them at once. Next time you make a page about something, try to have ALL the facts, don’t just make them up.

  • Trueler

    @ Gerrard B.,

    This is how you “CAN” redeem on Thursday and Friday between 6:30pm and 9:30pm:
    - It was closed last Friday due to some excuse
    - It was closed another Thursdays at around 8pm
    - It has many hours lineup when really open
    - It’s going to be closed soon for a long time due to “renovations” or their team going to the beach
    - You can’t get the products which were promised
    Is this “CAN”?! I thinks it really means can NOT redeem…

    Please read another post to get an idea where The Butchers get their meat from. Nobody knows what is the origin of their meat. It is a chain of re-sellers.

    It is a scam not just because they were excited…

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • Gerrard B.

    I’m not sure why it was closed last Friday, but I’m sure it was a valid reason, and not just “some excuse”.
    They try to stay open as late as possible, but really? 8:30pm who’s going to be shopping for meat at that time, seems a bit unreasonable to think they’d be open.
    Having a long line up with long wait just shows how popular and trusted they are, again, no complaints.
    They will be closed due to renovations, when I went in last week there was a contractor there taking measurements to expand the freezer.
    Lastly, they try to keep a stock of everything for people who make orders and those who come in looking for it. But I think we all know it’s impossible to please everyone.
    Also, I know where the butchers get their meat from, it’s a farm, not a chain.

    You must have a lot of time on your hands to be putting up such a fuss about all this, but in the end it’s pretty pathetic because you have to hide behind a website. Why don’t you reveal who you truly are and come out from behind the shadows?

  • sadams

    Check out the website – says the store has had to close (June 10) because of “refrigeration problems”. I’m betting they don’t open again.

    S Adams

  • Gerrard B.

    Looks like you’re not posting my last comment, what’s wrong? Give up?

  • Trueler

    Hey Gerrard B.,

    “unreasonable to think they’d be open” ?! Do you understand what you are saying? The Butchers claims on the website that the store is open for coupon holders 6:30 – 9:30 for two days per week. You said the same several times. It is only 6 hours per week.

    But The Butchers even does not honor their own rules which they are changing almost every day totally ignoring and abusing customers. Quality dropped many times.

    The only way to redeem the coupons is to get a refund from deal companies, there is no way to redeem for what was promised. But it’s hard to get a refund also. Sometimes impossible.

    They are not trusted at all now. They’ve sold thousands of coupons and some voucher holders are still not aware about awful service and quality at The Butchers, or some people still want to waste time. It’s the reason of long lines.

    The Butchers mostly get their meat from a chain with unknown origins, not a farm. Read another post for more information.

    I don’t have a need to place my personal information everywhere. It will not change the facts in the articles. There are no shadows at all. I’m replying to questions in comments. If any business think that something is wrong in the article about them, they are welcome to explain what really happened as they think. If it is reasonable, necessary corrections will be quickly made.

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • Polly

    Gerrard B.

    You are right no one would like to go get meat at 8:30pm but do we have choice? We only allow to redeem from 6:30 to 9:30pm Thur and Fri. Therefore I have no choice but go at 8:15pm on Friday June 3 but they already closed. So what is your suggestion?

  • Cathy

    The Butchers changed the voucher redemption hours again. The earliest date will be June 23.

  • Gary

    I think we all know who Gerrard B is.

  • mark

    From the Butchers website:

    ==============
    We are still experiencing issues with out refridgerator compressor and due to this are unable to properly refridgerate the quantity of meat required for voucher holders. We apologize for the inconvenience and hope to rectify this soon.

    The store will reopen again to voucher holders on Thursday June 23rd.

    Please note we have changed our voucher redemption hours. These hours are effective beginning Thursday June 23rd.

    New Voucher Redemption Hours – Effective Thursday June 23rd
    Thurs-Fri: 6:30pm-9:30pm
    ==============

    So the refridgerator works for some quantity of meat but not a large quantity. That is bizarre. Also, do they only have one refridgerator ?

  • Gary

    I think it’s almost time to put The Butcher under Trulers ‘Business Closed’ thread.

  • Jake

    Gary,

    I’d have to agree with you on this one. ‘Gerrard B’…. LOL.

    Nice try Gerrard or is it: (‘Jessica white’ / ‘brian O’reilly’, ‘leyla’ or Marlon?).

    Marlon is done, thank god I got my refund a month ago from Webpiggy. It wasn’t easy though, but they did refund me in full for the 3 vouchers I purchased.

    Reading all this makes me sick to my stomach, simply unbelievable how all the voucher holders are getting this kind of treatment. With each passing day it is harder and harder to redeem the vouchers.

  • Gerrard B.

    First of all, I am not pretending to be anyone. Secondly, yea I know they close during redeeming hours sometimes, but if it’s 8pm and not a lot of people are coming in, what would you do? Stay open? No, you’d close and not waste your time.

  • Trueler

    @Gerrard B.,

    Do not judge people based on your own perverted understanding of ethics and responsibility!

    I’m sure that any honest and trusted merchant/person would definitely work during promised hours. Marlon/The Butchers is not honest and trusted. You too since you are suggesting such a thing…

  • Gerrard B.

    They have a ton of repeat customers and regular customers who have been going there since the day it opened and do not buy their meat anywhere else. Obviously they are honest and trusted. The only REAL problem with The Butchers is people like you.

  • John Collins

    I bought a voucher online and went to The Butchers on Thursday to try and redeem them, but there were too many “Regular” customers and they had sold out. I’m pretty upset about not being able to use my voucher, but I was told they’re valid for upto a year, so it’s no skin off my nose. But after reading the negative comments, I have to disagree, if they sell out, they have to be doing something right, right?

  • Jake

    Hey, Gerrard B. “they close during refeeming hours sometimes” ? lol.. go and check your facts! “Sometimes”??

    “not a lot of people coming in at 8pm” ??

    Again, go and stand beside the store when they are open at 8 and see if there’s not a lot of people.

    Dude, get your facts straight. When and if they do re-open again, go and stand beside the store for 10 min and then comment.

  • mark

    From the RFD board it seems as though the store was open on the weekend – didn’t they have refrigeration problems or are these problems just for voucher holders ?

  • Gerrard B.

    @Jake, why don’t you check your facts, everytime I go to the store, or walk past it around 7-8pm, there’s practically no one there, or they’re closed because it’s slow and they’d be wasting their time to stay open. And you know what. WHEN they do re-open, I will stand there for an hour and count how many people come in, why don’t you join me and I can prove you wrong. They are only extremely busy during the day.

  • Jake

    The refrigeration problems only apply to voucher holders! LOL

    The refrigerator worked perfectly for everybody else!

  • MikeJefe

    “Gerrard B” = Yongeman?

  • Trueler

    @Gerrard B.:

    1) You don’t stay behind what you are saying at all. You say “A”. Then you read replies that “A” is not correct due to known facts or obvious conclusions. And you say “B” ignoring those replies. You are just a teller providing incorrect information and defending scammers.

    2) I hope that there will be practically no one there at The Butchers when/if they re-open, because there is absolutely no reason to go there – just wasting time and money.

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • mark

    An important Message from The Butchers

    Dear Valued Customers,

    We would like to take a second to thank everyone who has shown great interest in our establishment by purchasing online vouchers. It has been a very busy past few months at The Butchers and we would like everyone to know that we are doing our absolute best to keep up with the demand. As you may or may not know, we have run multiple promotions with various websites over the past few months offering some great discounts in order to get people to come in and experience our shop.

    So why in the world did we run these promotions?

    Here at The Butchers, we honestly believe in the quality of our products and service so much that we thought people would fall in love with our meat once they have tasted the difference. We thought about spending money on billboards and other types of marketing but it costs so much money and still does not guarantee that people will come in and try our food. Therefore, instead of spending money on advertising, we decided to pass on the savings to everyone who wanted to come in and actually try our food. Because we believe in our business so much, we offered an incredible deal so that people would come in and get to know us. However, these online vouchers are a completely new form of marketing that we did not know how to use properly and it got us into a bit of uncharted territory. We want everyone to know that we honestly made a mistake by not running these promotions properly but we also want you to know that we are doing our absolute best to make up for this misjudgement. We were just really confident about our establishment and we wanted people to get to know us. When judging the number of vouchers that we could sell and handle, we went for big numbers since if you sell 1,000 vouchers that works out to about 3 new customers per day. Unfortunately, it has been hard for us to judge how much meat to bring in since it is a perishable product and we never know how many people are going to be coming in on a particular day to redeem their vouchers. Also, we thought that people would come in and use a bit of their vouchers over the course of the year versus coming in and redeeming the full amount all in one go. I’m sure it is not hard to imagine how quickly we can go through a refrigerator case full of meat when you have 30 people redeeming their entire voucher all at once.

    So what can we do to make things run smoother for everyone?

    In our current situation, we are having a hard time supplying our new valued customers with the selection and availability that we strive to provide. Currently, we do not have enough refrigeration units and meat display cases to meet the supply needs of our customers.

    So what can we do about it?

    We can either keep running the shop the way it has been going over the past few months and keep running into supply and demand issues or we can do something to actually fix the situation. We have considered a variety of options and have decided that we need to fix the layout of the store by increasing the number of refrigeration units to accommodate and properly supply our customers. It’s a tough decision to make to renovate the shop because we will have to close down for a few weeks in order to make the necessary changes so that everything runs much smoother in the future for our customers. Hopefully, people will appreciate that we are trying our best to fix this current situation and make sure that people can properly experience our establishment and leave with a smile.

    Until renovations are complete we can no longer honour vouchers. However please rest assured that once we open after renovations we will honour your vouchers. Please check back regularily for updates on when the store will open again.

    Finally, we want people to know that we did not make any money off of running these promotions. In fact, we lost a lot of money on each voucher that we sold but we chalked it up as a marketing expense and an initiative to get people to taste the difference between us and non-conventional meat. While we have seen many repeat customers from our promotions, we want everyone to know that we love “meating” new people every day and we are just a team of good people that made a mistake while using a new form of marketing. It was our fault that we’re in the situation that we are in but we just want all of our customers to know that we are doing absolutely everything possible to make the best of the situation. Thank you very much to everyone for your support and understanding on this matter and we look forward to showing you the quality and service that we’ve built our business on over the last ten years.

    Best Regards,

    The Butchers Team

  • Trueler

    Thanks Mark for information. It’s expected. Taking into account previous behavior of The Butchers, it may be treated as “out of business”. Just get a refund from deal companies and forget. It’s obvious now that they are not going to pay any more to The Butchers, and Marlon decided to close the shop.

    Regarding their “mistake”… I think if The Butchers really admitted their mistake and tried to fix it, they would definitely:

    - NOT sell low quality meat from from the chain of resellers
    - NOT sell cheap meat as organic and naturally raised
    - NOT be adding starch fillers to their sausages
    - NOT inflate their meat with water
    - NOT abuse customers
    - NOT discriminate voucher holders from regular customers
    - NOT lie to the customers
    - etc, etc, etc, …

    And one simple thing which obviously shows that it was a plan, not a mistake:

    There was 10-20 voucher limit per customer when buying deals with a huge discount.

    It’s not a way of marketing, it’s a way of very effective cash-raising.

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • Bernie Madoff

    HA HA HA

    THE PYRAMID SCHEME HAS COME TO AN END!

    GERARD B AKA MARLON MADOFF WILL NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN – HE IS GONE BACK TO TRINIDAD.

    HA HA HA

    GOOD JOB SHILL PUMPERS – YOU HAVE MADE FREE EASY MONEY.

    Gerard – Marlon Madoff is my son, I am Bernie.
    You may have heard of me.

    Ha Ha Ha – You poor pathetic sheep – your money is gone!!!

    We all told you so.

    Stupid Buytopia is a fraud. They are going to be sued (I heard!!)

    Oh you stupid sheep – the shillers, and butcher-pumpers have disappeared!!

    Cry all you want!

    Gerard and Buytopia and Marlon and Webpiggy and DealTicker are GONE just like your MOney.

    Gone to Money Heaven!!!

  • Gerrard B.

    @Bernie Madoff, IT’S NOT A F**CKING PYRAMID SCHEME. It was a promotion that got out of control. EVERYONE (or mostly at least) on this site are a bunch of knobs. It was a simple promotion that got out of hand, then the person who runs trueler for whatever reason decided to spread nothing but LIES about a small business.

    As for the people who think I am Marlon/someone who works for the butchers.. It’s only because I am a loyal customer to them and are defending them, if you look around the internet at all the slam sites you’ll find a hell of a lot more people defending them. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEY WORK FOR THE SITE. ALSO, back to Bernie Madoff, Marlons last name is not Madoff, so stfu. Also, you might want to look into getting on meds. A lot of you should.

  • Gerrard B.

    So I come on here frequently and I always notice that my comments (probably not just mine) are always awaiting moderation. Why is that? The point of making comments about something is to get our opinion out there ASAP. How can we trust a site that filters our comments and only selects the ones in which either agrees with their topic or will prove for a worthy battle… I don’t think it’s right and some things need to change.

  • Gerrard B.

    OH! AND @Bernie Madoff, I went into The Butchers today around 6:30-7, redeemed my voucher (WITH NO PROBLEM) and look who was there, MARLON. So I guess everything is evening out, I asked him a couple questions and got answers so this is straight from him: He will close for renovations sometime in July. When he re-opens, he will still accept vouchers, BUT NO MORE WILL BE SOLD. After the last voucher is redeemed, THEY ARE DONE WITH. So all this petty drama bull crap will be done with and everything will go back to normal.

  • Trueler

    @Gerrard B.,

    Promotion with 10-20 vouchers limit at 75% off for high demand products well advertised before the main deals was supposed to go out of control.

    You are not right again. Trueler does not filter comments. Just be patient a bit to see your comments approved ;)

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • ExVegetarian

    I bought 10 of these coupons from Dealfinder a few months ago. I’ve used two coupons, but Dealfinder is refunding me for the rest. I just don’t have time to keep track of the store closures and the changing “rules” around coupon redemption. This makes me sad. Marlon and staff have always been pleasant, and I’ve been satisfied with the quality of their products in the past. But right now I feel used. Sorry, Marlon, but I can’t see myself visiting your seafood store either now. If this really was an honest mistake, then I wish you good luck.

    Maybe I’ll go back to vegetarianism. :) There’s also an organic food vendor on Yonge just north of Lawrence that’s pretty good.

    Also, props to dealfinder for agreeing to a quick refund.
    I’ll follow up here on whether or not they come through as promised.

  • MikeJefe

    “Gerrard B” (here) = “BillySue” (on RFD) = “Yongeman” (on Chowhound) = shill/apologist for Marlon

  • Gerrard B.

    @ Trueler, obviously you do watch the comments otherwise they would post automatically. To say “Your comment is awaiting moderation” means that you’re validating our comments before their published, ultimatly giving you final word. How is that fair?

    @MikeJefe – You’re just saying this because I am the only person who is defending the business. You’re against it, so I’m going to say you’re Prince Naharaja from Istanbul.

  • Trueler

    Hey Gerrard B.,

    I’m repeating for you one more time: Trueler does not filter comments. Even yours. There is a lot of spam going on – this is the reason for moderation. I think it’s fair enough. Final word is still yours.

    BTW: It’s strange to hear concerns from you about fairness after providing so much crap in your previous comments.

    Trueler

  • Sasals

    Hey, Trueler,
    Why waste your time to someone called Gerrard B.?
    Everyone knows what is happening because these are our true experience. And comments submitted are awaiting moderation on every site, not just here. Ignor him.

  • Omar

    I was in there a few days ago. They had a fair bit of meat but there was not one customer. Only the owner was in. I asked him about the coupons and he said that the deal is over and anyone that bought a coupon should go get a refund from the site that they bought it from immediately. He said the coupon companies are not paying him any more, and so he is not honouring they deal now or ever. I know their website says differently but this is right from the bossman himself.

  • Trueler

    Thanks Omar for link… It’s awful. How could they pass with such critical violations?! I think Marlon promised to fix it. But unfortunately inspectors do not know that Marlon’s promises are absolutely nothing…

  • MikeJefe

    And now this:

    http://www.moneyville.ca/article/1016344–roseman-butcher-sold-21-000-coupons-can-t-meet-demand?bn=1

    Webpiggy and Marlon both blame customers for their problems….

  • Trueler

    I’m wondering why The Butchers, Webpiggy and Buytopia are not prosecuted for fraud yet?!

  • Dale McMillan

    My coupons were through buytopia. They have not responded to email. When talking to them on the phone they refuse to give a discount. They state the vouchers are good for a year and they will not offer refunds until the year is up.

    I would be very interested in a lawsuit against the Butcher shop but more important I believe the lawsuit needs to be against the seller of the coupon. They are who we made the contract with.

    I spoke with Jonathon (sp) at Buytopia and he would not even provide his last name for my records. They are refusing to admit they are responsible as my contract (money paid) was to them.

    I have contacted 680 news in the hope that they may pick up the story but I doubt if it is newsworthy enough for them.

    Any ideas or suggestions?

  • Trueler

    Hi Dale,

    Try to contact your credit card company and tell that your product has not been delivered. The product is the coupon you can use. Nobody honor the coupon which Buytopia sent to you. So it’s just a piece of paper, actually several worthless kilobytes for hundreds bucks. I know that most banks refuse to do chargebacks against Buytopia, but nevertheless. You tell – “product not delivered” – they must respond.

    Buytopia commits fraud now because The Butchers is not going to accept coupons anymore, and Buytopia is not going to issue any refunds. So, the money actually have been stolen…

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • Gary

    Always sue the most parties possible.

    In this case it would be the voucher company, the butcher store and possibly Marlon himself if you think you can prove damages that came from him personally.

  • John Collins

    @Trueler, maybe because it’s not a scam? I honestly think it was a deal that got out of hand. Also I heard the Butchers isn’t going to accept any vouchers because of the whole mess, but can they really be held responsible for buytopia not issuing refunds? Just curious about that.

  • Trueler

    @John Collins:

    Unfortunately it is a scam. I’ve already explained why and provided facts. Thinking that it was “a deal that got out of hand” and ignoring all the facts which tell it was a scam is your own choice.

    The Butchers is not going to accept any vouchers because it won’t bring any more cash if daily deal sites are not going to pay them.

    The Butchers should be responsible for scam they’ve committed, not for “buytopia not issuing refunds”. Buytopia should be responsible for the latter.

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • Trueler

    @Gerrard B.:

    Do you really believe that the post in Postcity is in Marlon’s defense? It was just a bunch of excuses.

  • Trueler

    @Gary:

    Thanks for the link! Good report

  • Gerrard B.

    It was him explaining what happened.

  • Gerrard B.

    Why can’t you just let the man defend himself without saying it’s him making up excuses when in actuality, it’s him standing up for himself.

  • Trueler

    @Gerrard B.:

    Because he is making up excuses. I know for fact that he lied in answers in Postcity article and in the FAQ on The Butchers website as well.

  • Brett

    Is there a class action lawsuit forming for this issue?

  • @gerrard b

    you said “You must have a lot of time on your hands to be putting up such a fuss about all this,”

    and you must have a lot of time on your hands putting a fuss into trolling websites to defend an unethical, greedy butcher.

  • Gerrard B.

    @ Trueler, how do you know he lied? You don’t even know him.

    @Kate raynes-goldie, right, cuz I’m on here all the time, smart girl.

  • Carole O.

    I’ve been going to The Butchers for years now, and I will admit, I haven’t been happy with this whole voucher deal, but I really don’t think it’s a scam or anything else bad people have been saying. How is it a scam if they only let you use one voucher per visit? They sold a ton of vouchers. That brings them a lot of new customers a day all trying to redeem the full amount of their vouchers at once, which they do and it cleans them out of meat, making it hard to please other customers, that’s why they’ve had to constantly change the rules, it’s to try and sell to everyone!

  • Trueler

    @ Gerrard B.:

    I’ve read/heard what he said in his interviews and I know for sure that some things are not true at all.

  • Trueler

    @ Carole O.:

    It has been proven to be scam. I’ve already explained why. If you missed… The Butchers won customers confidence in the very beginning before the deal on DealFind by providing the best quality possible. After that The Butchers started to provide disgusting staff and unacceptable quality and service like:

    - The cheapest meat from the chain of resellers instead of organic meat from local farms as they claimed
    - Meat stuffed with starch, water, and other additives
    - Awful quality of meat
    - Not honoring coupons whenever they wish
    - etc. etc. etc…

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • Gary

    I don’t think anyone would have had a problem if they put a $100 cap on each visit or something. It was the fact that they would not even let customers in the door unless they had cash that pissed people off. Also the fact that they lied about all the orders and deliveries and never did them. They violated every term of the coupon and treated people with coupons like animals. That was the problem

  • MikeJefe

    And now RFD is reporting the place is completely shuttered with no activity inside. He took the money and ran…

    Yongeman has been conspicuous by his absence on CH…. he’s probably hiding out WITH Marlon…

  • MIKE

    I have had no luck in getting any response from buytopia despite several emails and phone messages. Either they have moved or closed as they can’t be found on Spectrum Way near airport. Do they operate under another name? Any ideas? On principle I am not going to let this drop. Dealfind has done the right thing in providing responses and refunds. Why not Buytopia?

  • Carole O.

    How could you possibly know any of this? You’re a person with a website in Oakville or something, there is no possible way you could know the ins and outs of Marlons store.

  • CA

    I bought some vouchers for the buthers. I have an allergic reaction to growth hormones, and in May I used my voucher. I found the staff nice and it was the end of the day, so the options were minimal. But I can tell you, I didn’t have an allergic reaction, so will use my other vouchers, and will probably shop there afterwards.

  • Gary

    I did get a refund from Webpiggy finally. Buytopia said they would, but it never showed up this month…. maybe next month…or maybe never.

    In the meantime, the store is closed. I don’t care what their excuse is. It is closed to the public, if its a month or 2, or forever its all the same difference to me. I don’t see how they are going to reopen and suddenly be able to serve all the coupon holders. They couldn’t do it last time and I don’t think an extra freezer is going to help. They had the fish store across the road with extra freezers if that really was the problem….And lets not forget the health code violations.

  • Trueler

    @Carole O.:

    If you missed it… I used coupons at The Butchers some time ago, and know about quality and service at Marlon’s store. A research has also been done.

  • Gerrard B.

    @Gary, the store is not closed, I was in there today and bought some beautiful cuts of meat. I don’t know where you’re getting your information wrong, but you should really do your research before you post comments.

  • @gerrard b – clearly you are, since you replied to that!

    i’m a ‘smart girl’ eh? surely you’re a smarter and more mature man (or should i say boy?) who doesn’t need to resort to sexist condescension to win an argument.

  • Binky

    The other address shown on Buytopia’s site is under the privacy link, 25 Telegram Mews, Suite 3806, which is probably one of the owners apartments.

    They tell everyone on their facebook page whether its the butchers or another problem to phone the 1-800, which they don’t answer. I wouldn’t hold my breath on ever seeing a refund from them.

  • Binky

    If they owed me me money Id go down the list of the charities who have logos on their site and point out how buytopia is behaving, with links, asking if they want to be associated with them, while c.c.ing buytopia each time

  • Gary

    Gerrard, I got my information from standing outside of the store. Unless the staff have all turned invisible, including the meat – the store was closed. The door was locked,etc. Maybe they only open when you are going? Lucky

  • Gerrard B.

    @Kate, would you like to explain to me how calling you a ‘smart girl’ is sexist? If anything it’s sarcastic. Get a dictionary.

    @Gary, What time did you go? Also what day, they’re preparing for renovations and had to close for a couple days, what’s the big deal? They’re closing for 3 weeks to renovate the store to make it better, are you going to get mad about that too?

  • Gary

    I was there at about 1pm on a Saturday. Lol “whats the big deal” I think if you have been following this thread and the ones on redflagdeals you would know what the big deal is.

    No one is mad that they are renovating. They are mad because they were treated like animals for months and turned away countless times from redeeming their vouchers. Lied to and mistreatd. Also, the sad fact that the store miserably failed many of the health inspections.

    I would have thought you could gather this by reading the above posts. If you don’t have the redflag link here it is.

    http://forums.redflagdeals.com/merged-butchers-organic-meat-feedback-discussion-999078/

    There are only 72 pages of disgruntled people, happy reading.

  • Trueler

    “Gerrard B.” is a shill for The Butchers. He/She is defending Marlon and his store by providing deceptive information misleading people who may not be aware of what The Butcher is.

  • Gerrard B.

    Actually Trueler, I’m providing the other side of the store for a man who you won’t listen to. I am not a “shill” for the butchers, I am simple a loyal customer who doesn’t like to see innocent people mistreated.

    And Gary, If they failed so many health code violations, don’t you think they would have been forced to shut down instead of continuing business until renovations are complete?

    Also to anyone else out there, I hope that when the Butchers re-opens after renovations and honors the vouchers and gets business back up, that many if not all of you will apologize and admit that you were wrong. Because you are.

  • Sasals

    “Gerrard B” = Marlon? “Gerrard B” seems to know inside stories that we don’t know, seems The Butcher’s favour that Marlon was talking to him/her, the store was open when he/she was there, got treated like a customer, and even able to buy “tasty” meat too.

    “Gerrard B”, since you are The Butcher’s loyal customer, so pleased with their services and products, so sure the store will be reopen, why don’t you buy vouchers from us and use them yourself.

  • Trueler

    Gerrard B.,

    Just buy all the remaining vouchers for cash as Sasals suggested! Why not?

    I do listen to everyone, but you don’t listen to facts which showed it was a scam. It’s obviously because you are tied to the store and trying to whiten their reputation which won’t happen if you will continue in this way blaming customers and demanding apologies from the customers as Marlon behaved in his interviews.

    To Everyone who is not aware:

    About health code violations. When the business is caught with violations, it is given 48 hours to fix them and continue to work. I think it’s not right and the business must be closed immediately with a huge fine. Just read the results of The Butchers inspection with many crucial violations.

    Does anyone want to buy any food from there?

    INADEQUATE FOOD TEMPERATURE CONTROL:
    - Operator fail to maintain hazardous food(s) at 4C (40F) or colder.

    FAILURE TO PROTECT FOOD FROM CONTAMINATION:
    - Operator fail to ensure food is not contaminated/adulterated
    - Operator fail to use proper utensils to ensure food safety

    FAILURE TO ENSURE / PROVIDE FOR PROPER EMPLOYEE HYGIENE / HANDWASHING:
    - Operator fail to provide hand washing supplies
    - Employee fail to wash hands when required
    - Food handler fail to wear headgear

    IMPROPER MAINTENANCE / SANITATION OF FOOD CONTACT SURFACES / UTENSILS /EQUIPMENT:
    - Operator fail to properly maintain equipment
    - Operator fail to properly wash multi-use utensils

    IMPROPER MAINTENANCE / SANITATION OF NON-FOOD CONTACT SURFACES / EQUIPMENT:
    - Operator fail to provide proper mechanical equipment
    - Operator fail to properly maintain rooms
    - Operator fail to properly maintain equipment(NON-FOOD)
    - Operator fail to properly wash equipment

    Source: http://app.toronto.ca/food2/DineSafeMain?userRequest=view_history&ESTABLISHMENT_ID=9015608

    It’s disgusting and extremely risky for health and life…

  • Gary

    Gerrard, why do you say the store is open? Every time I walk by it is closed and their website says they are closed and will re-open Aug 17. http://www.thebutchersorganic.com/message.html

    Are you saying they are only open for you? Or they are still running without posting their yellow card in the window?
    Or they have meat and are still running, but have decided to cancel all vouchers until they feel like doing them again?

    Pick any one of those, or make up your own story, but there is nothing that would exonerate them.

  • Gerrard B.

    Sasals, Did it ever occur to you that I know “Inside stories” because I actually talk to Marlon when I go in and get his side of the story. Remember back in the day when people used to tell you “Don’t believe everything you read online”? Well I don’t, and that’s why I ask questions and that’s why I’m the only one who seems to be defending him. I’m not saying there were never any hassles, but after 10 years of business, one thing got out of hand and then a bunch of people came forward with complaints. To “kick him when he’s down” it seems. What no one realizes, is that Marlon will come back better than ever, accept the vouchers and everything will go back to normal and all of you will feel like fools. I would feel sorry for you, but I don’t because I don’t like any of you.

    Gary, they’re usually open, yes not everyday, but when they are they are open for business. No, the vouchers are not being accepted until renos are done. Honestly though, they need to update their website frequently to let people know when they’re open and closed so people like you can stop complaining.

  • Caught in Webpiggy scam

    Webpiggy is an absolute scam. They promised to take my butchers coupon order and get The butchers to deliver or else refund the coupon however neither has happened. It’s been 2+ Months of following up with webpiggy and them giving one excuse after another and now they won’t provide refunds on the account of “We’ve paid the butchers now”.

    Webpiggy and the butchers is the ultimate scam. $200 wasted.

    I have no faith in online deals anymore due to this experience.

  • Gary

    If they are still open and not trying to serve the voucher holders then shame on them. Everyone else’s cash is ok, but mine is no good because they offered me a coupon?

    They are going to try to do damage control with their ‘regulars’ They have two stores across from each other and lots of freezer space. Who cares about the amount of freezer space anyway, it is irrelevant. When they sell out, they sell out. They should be happy to sell out. Who cares if they want more space. Who doesn’t.

  • Sasals

    Gerrard B, if you know “Don’t believe everything you read online”, then you should know absolutely well that “you should not believe everything you were told”.

    I bought the coupon, I went to the store Sunday morning and they just opened. There were no beef, just some chicken and some pork chop. Their excuse for limited selection was the compressor was broken down. I placed my order online and never heard any reply.

    Are you going to tell me don’t believe my own experience?

    If you have so much faith in the deal, why don’t you buy coupons from us and you will get the best deal in the world!

  • Gary

    For months there was always an excuse. Broken this, broken that. Something else not working. Any excuse to get out of the coupon deal. They must have honestly thought people were stupid and were going to just keeping buying the excuses as they still are. If any store really had that many problems with their storage and were unable to fix it, they would be out of business very fast.

    A Butcher shop without working fridges for 2 months….lol

    And he can sell to customers now no problem, but for the vouchers he needs a special renovation..

    At least I would have respected him more if he just told the truth from the beginning and didn’t lie and treat the voucher people like animals.

  • Alba

    Just read this entire thread and wanted to thank Trueler for compiling all this information and making it available.

    In a few years, when we look back to pinpoint the end of ‘Groupon mania’, it will be in the first half of 2011. Stories like this, and the story on the Current about the restaurant that shut down the day after receiving payment for their daily deal, illuminate the way in which the system can be manipulated.

    This is a case where a few bad apples spoil the lot. The cost is consumer trust, which is the foundation upon which commercial transactions fundamentally rest. If we had to question every single transaction we made, we would be paralyzed by indecision. Consumers buy daily deals expecting that deal to be honoured. If a merchant goes out of business, and the purchase price of the coupon is not refunded, then consumer trust take a big hit.

    Don’t get me wrong – there will always be room for this model of marketing. 98% of merchants are well intentioned, and most daily deal companies are trying to do what is best. Unfortunately, players like Webpiggy (where I bought my Butchers coupon) are not. They are absolving themselves of the risk, reaping the full benefits of their ‘cut’ of the coupon and passing on all the risk of default to the consumer. For them to say they are not responsible for refunds in the event a merchant going bankrupt is both amoral and unethical.

    It is players like Webpiggy that will (hopefully) be the first to fall when the mania over daily deals fade. There isn’t room in the Toronto marketplace for 40 daily deal companies, and I would bet we’ll see the first collapses be the end of the year. The Butchers is just a flashpoint, a grand reveal of a great fundamental flaw in the model, which is manipulation, and in this case, fraud, by the merchant.

    Which brings me to one last point about the CBC interview with Marlon. When asked why he didn’t pull the plug on the coupons, he essentially asserted that the deals were binding. While this is probably fundamentally correct, he absolutely must have seen the problems after the very first coupon was issued. He would have needed to be incredibly naive to not see the problem with trying to honour over $2 million dollars in coupons for which he got about 25 cents on the dollar. The numbers could never, ever, have made sense. Not with the size of the store, the margins on meat products (well, fake 100% organic sausages aside), and not with the staffing overhead.

    The Butchers is a ponzi scheme, likely not the last we’ll see, either. Only 55% of merchants report ‘making money’ on their daily deal, and only 20% of daily deal customers turn into repeat customers. The numbers for this industry don’t add up, and we should hope that 2012 sees some sanity return to the market, and the end of dishonest companies like Webpiggy that absolve their responsibility for the deals they construct.

  • The Butchers have been reporting, through their website and other means, that they were closing in August for renovations. Today, my wife drove by their storefront and the unit is boarded up. There are no signs, and no visible permits. According to their website, they will be re-opening on August 17th.

    My wife and I have an open investigation with MasterCard, and are actively pursuing a full refund from them. With the phone call we received from Marlon last month and now this event, we feel that a refund should be imminent.

  • Mike

    Gerrard B. is the biggest shill of all. Constants excuses defending yourself, or your friend, Marlon, whose cock you continuously suck, does not make you truthful.

    Marlon ran multiple deals after he had trouble keeping up with demand for the first one. This is why it is a Ponzi scheme.

  • Shannon

    I have been given the run around since April when I purchased a vocuher from Web Pggy . Was never able to redeem through Butchers nor receive an order through delivery. Promise & after promise , excuse afetr excsue. Now same deal w/ Web Piggy . I want my money back & not sure where to turn to now . Web Piggy says cannot give refunds because they have already paid The Butchers. How do you pay someone who has not produced product for their customers? That is not my problem . I made the Deal w/ Web Piggy. I will never get meat now , nor my money back . Anyone have any tips on how I can persue to ensure I get a refund . I don’t care about meat anymore , I needed it 5 months ago!!

  • Bill

    I spent 20 minutes on the phone with Buytopia last week trying to seek a refund to no avail. All they offered me was a credit but Buytopia almost never has any deals to offer anymore and must also be going out of business. I will never buy another product from these group buying companies. I will try and get a refund through VISA now. Even if The Butchers were to open up again I would never trust them now and I especially don’t trust that they have organic meat or even locally sourced hormone and antibiotic free meat. Is there no recourse at all for consumers who purchased a coupon? If The Butchers open again I would be willing to start a group that pickets them regularly ensuring that new customers know exactly what kind of place they are entering. Anyone interested? Does anyone know how to start a class action suit? Is there a place we can go and have a public meeting about this scandal and get everyone’s thoughts and ideas on how to proceed. Time to take action folks against these shysters.

  • Gary

    I had to fight hard with all the companies but I eventually got all my refunds. I had to threaten going to visa with charge backs and send some firm emails but in the end I got back every cent.

    As for the store opening again, even if they do, I don’t see how it is going to be any different. Maybe they will try to do a good job for a week and get the rest of the money from the deal companies then magically stop serving voucher holders again. Or maybe they will run another 11,000 deals

  • Jeannie

    I used to be a loyal Butchers customer which is why I purchased a Buytopia coupon. I went to the store twice to redeem my coupon and was shocked at the change in the store, the increase in price, the lack of selection and ultimately the quality of the meat during the “couponing” program. The ground beef had bone bits in it….so disgusting.

    Marlon’s coupon rules made me feel like i was redeeming food stamps. For the way he made me feel, i will never forgive Marlon, I will never shop there again (NEVER), and I’m sad to say that I feel the bad press looks good on him. I redeemed 50% of my coupon and will not redeem anymore. I feel dirty when I think of having to go back to the Butchers.

    My recourse? I vote with my feet and choose to support reputable, honest butchers with integrity and foresight. I do not support Marlon Panther anymore. Neither should any of us because fool me once, shame on you….fool me twice, shame on me.

  • Katie

    Hey trueler,
    i just recently found out that “The Butchers” is a SCAM.
    I recently met an ex employee of The Butchers and she has confirmed that Marlin has bought a condo in Goa (India). The butchers wont even be opening. Some jewellery store is going to take over that location. His fish store doesnt exist anymore.
    Get your money back asap. My friend that worked at The Butchers also told me that her mother got 10 vouchers and got the full refund.

    GET YOUR MONEY BACK ASAP BECAUSE IT WONT BE OPENING. AUGUST 17TH HAS ALREADY PASSED. SCAM ! SCAM !!!

  • Katie & Irving

    My friend confirmed today that those men doing the construction are his family members. (Shes worked there for almost 4 years!) I bet he was tipped off that Global was coming, so they probably acted like they were working. Notice how marlin wasnt even in the video ?

    Get your $$ back people. This store isnt even worth it. Even if it reopens.

  • Jay

    I think the police should look into the coupon deals offered. Could there be some fraud?

  • Trueler

    @Jay: There is…

  • Mike

    Just an FYI.

    I saw that pig Marlon and his wife at Loblaws (Yonge and Yonge location).

    He was actually at the meat counter buying steak and rack of lamb!!

    I was laughing so hard in the store people thought i was drunk.

    I can only assume then that he is either buying then reselling to voucher holders at a ridiculous markup (suspected even before he closed down, due to the fact NZ Rack of Lamb packages were seen in his store…you know, the ones you buy frozen from Loblaws).

    Or, the meat he sells is not good enough for him and he would rather pay full retail at Loblaws.

    This was such a scam and I cannot believe nothing has happened to him, legally or otherwise.

  • Mike

    btw – he stared me down with death stares..he obviously knew what i was laughing at. what a moron.

  • Gary

    I heard he was buying meat when it was on sale at places like loblaws and no frills also. Then he would marinate it or just put it for sale at his place at a largely marked up price.

    It makes sense for him. If steaks are on sale for 4.99/lb he can buy these and make some kebobs and sell the steaks for 21.99 at his store and still make money. By now everyone knows his food is not organic so they expect that.

    The last time I got kebobs there they were inedible. I had to tenderize them for a long time to even try them. Like eating a baseball glove

  • Rosie

    Hello, we saw on the butchers website that voucher holders are requested to place their order through the deal site [buytopia, webpiggy, etc].

    Has anyone been able to get any meat since they say they have re-opened?

  • RAF

    Has anyone had success getting a refund from their CC company? What approach did you use?

    I wrote webpiggy a complaint about this asking for a refund and never received a response.

    Today, I got off the phone today with RBC Visa and they said I have 2 options if the company has not declared bankruptcy.

    1) submit a claim now and if the merchant claims they will reopen before the coupon expiry date – April 2012, they can say deny the charge back. If they never re-open (likely) I cannot file another charge back claim – crazy visa rule.

    2) submit claim in April after the expiry date and if I can prove i wasn’t able to use it, they will refund it.

    Any suggestions on how to get a refund now without jeopardizing rights later?

  • Brett

    I am in the same boat as all the other Webpiggy customers out there. They refuse to take responsibility for this. So I am going to talk to my CC company about a dispute. Enough is enough. I will post updates so you know how this progresses. I am sure they will dispute back and there will be a fight. Oh well. I’ve stopped buying online coupons. Its just not worth it. If you have any successes or failures with a CC dispute relating to The Butchers coupons, please post so we know what might happen.

  • Marie

    After months of trying to redeem my partially used $400 coupon I paid $100 for from Webpiggy, I now see the store tape I was returned with my remaining $184 value + $50 fish store value HAS FADED COMPLETELY. At the time, I complained it would fade, and they wrote on the back in ink (but no signature to prove it).

    Having been raised working in a family butcher shop, I noticed the poor quality of the hamburg I had bought and asked a worker, “what’s the difference between your regular and lean ground beef?” He replied, “we grind it one more time”. Wow! He actually said that!

    No apology could make up for the fact that this store has financed their upgrades on our money they are holding hostage. If anyone wants to start a class action law suit, I will support it.

  • Jason

    I have redeemed my Webpiggy coupons. Success and hooray for the Butcher. The Butcher made some amazing improvements and the meat is better than ever.

  • Marsh

    I went to redeem my voucher today, but called in before to place my order, had no problem whats so ever.. friendly staff, the new store looks beautiful! i will be returning.

    Marsh

  • Ruth

    I recently went to Marlon’s meat since the closure, the place looks way bigger, cleaner and now has more varieties- I recommend for everyone to go see for themselves.

  • Gary

    Lol, seriously Marlon, why do you even bother posting those? It makes you look even more desperate.

    Marsh and Ruth? Can’t you come up with better names than that?

  • Daniel

    Success! was finally able to redeem my voucher with buytopia! had to make an appointment by buytopia,chicken pineapple burger and new york strip loin are few of the items i picked up.

  • Gary

    Show me pictures of it on your kitchen counter with the butcher receipt

  • T

    I’ve re-submitted my order through Webpiggy over 4 weeks ago (as per the new redemption process) and haven’t heard a peep from Marlon, or Webpiggy. I too would love to see someone post a reciept with their meat.

  • Tyler

    I just got a reply back today after three weeks from webpiggy, got a pick date of Nov 14 where i can go choose my meats. I will let you know how it goes.

  • T

    Sweet – Thanks Tyler. I’m still holding hope!!! Perhaps I should have arranged for pick-up (not to self for voucher #2)!

  • Gary

    You have to wait a month to go in? Lol.. Good luck!

  • MikeJefe

    and now one of Marlon’s shills (if not Marlon himself) posted on RFD suggesting you go in and redeem the vouchers at face value! Imagine that! Just when you thought he’s stooped as low as you can go, he manages to excavate even deeper into the quarry….

  • MikeJefe

    Gary – Marlon could easily make up phony receipts to post online…. but what’s the point, whether we go to the store or not we still won’t get to buy anything, so luring people in using phony receipts serves no purpose anyway! So might as well stay at home and keep “butchering” his reputation here and on RFD!

  • Sham

    I was entering the butchers today and while i was walking in a young lady was walking out in anger.. in the process shouldered me causing me to drop my phone.. the lady didn’t even stop to apologies or help pick me up my phone.. i asked the staff what was her problem only to find out it was a voucher holder that wasn’t able to redeem her vouchers.

    i ask kindly that you have some class with others that did nothing to you… i asked the staff why she wasn’t able to redeem her voucher, she replied their is a process in place that the client didn’t want to follow..

  • Trueler

    @Sham:

    Really??! Why didn’t you call police? The Butchers/Marlon’s Meats make their customers so angry, that they become very dangerous to the people around, according to your story. Social guards should know about it and try to prevent! Next angry customer may even hurt someone…

  • Sham

    @trueler: I know in the past they had to hire security hoping people can be civilized at a butcher store.. but perhaps we should have the military guard the store!

    P.S- I really appreciate you posting my comments

    Have a nice day.

  • Trueler

    @Sham: You missed my point… Not the store need a guard. People need! Customers should not be angered and abused by Marlon anymore – this needs to be done.

  • Trueler

    For voucher holders who want a refund, but deal companies refuse:

    Credit card companies must do a charge-back for you because the “Item is not as described”. There are usually only two reasons for charge-back accepted: “Item not delivered” and “Item is not as described”.

    The item is the voucher which states when and how it can be used. It has been delivered by the deal company. But it can not be redeemed according to the conditions mentioned on the voucher or on the daily deal page advertisement. So, it is definitely not as described.

    Ask CC company if they have “Item not as described” condition, and then ask for charge-back for your remaining vouchers.

    Regards,
    Trueler

  • Anil

    @Trueler I actually did contact my mastercard company but they too declined to refund me saying the merchant (buytopia) is still honouring the purchase. I had to work with buytopia to get an appointment at Marlon’s Meat(new name now) to be able to go in and redeem my voucher.. process took close to a month.. it was a headache but Marlon honured the voucher and gave me my meat and apologized for what happened.

  • Trueler

    @Anil: it was indeed far from described, eh… You probably said to your cc company, that you can not redeem it at all – that’s why they declined. They understood the problem as “not delivered”, no as “not as described”

  • Sham

    @Trueler Not sure I understand, what needs to be done? you think we should call the police cause we cant get our meat? you cant change what happened in the past… if you want your meats you have to follow the procedures or loose your money. At the end of the day life goes on at the shop.

  • Trueler

    @Sham: Procedures are written on the vouchers and daily deal ads. Marlon must follow or refund. Otherwise he should be prosecuted by law

  • Matt

    Hey Trueler,

    This thread is super helpful but obviously getting to the end of it I’m still frustrated beyond imagination as my credit card company has refused to do anything: BuyTopia.ca issued the coupon, which (in the opinion of RBC card services) means they held up their end of the bargain. Whether or not the retailer honours it is (apparently) not their problem. I was advised to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.

    It’s not every day that I wish for a local business to fail, but Marlon, you’re human garbage.

  • Trueler

    Hi Matt,

    Unfortunately this is how RBC treat their customers when we ask for help… You may continue to fight with them by sending registered mail to their head office, or to their president with screenshots from Buytopia advertising how voucher can be redeemed and instructions from Marlon how he accepts it. It is definitely “not as described”, and Buytopia should be responsible for this, because you paid them, they have your money.

    BBB is absolutely useless here also…

    Regards,
    Trueler

  • Matt

    The BBB is useless?! What the hell are they for?!?!

    Thanks for the reply, Trueler.

  • Xin Qi

    I have been shopping at the butchers for the past 6 years. They did have really good stuff prior to these coupon deals which I purchased all the deals they ran with all the various sites (buytopia, dealfind and webpiggy. But once the big deal with dealfind was done, their quality and quantity did go down, and the staffs were not as friendly . (I guess I understand since they always had crazy line ups).

    I heard if you’re a dealfind customer you can get a full refund since they are not honouring them now (legal dispute, something about the company not paying them) .. call them .

    I really like the way the new store looks, and their meat counter is all full. I walked in few weeks ago and spoke to Marlon and I told him how I’m sick and tired of the voucher companies which wont give me a refund and asked him if I can just redeem the voucher at he purchase price. He agreed and I was able to use one of my buytopia coupon $100 for $400. I got $100 worth of meat. (yes, I sucked out.. just want these ordeal to be done!!)

    Webpiggy and Buytopia are scheduling appointment for the shop so you can go in and choose your meat which can take over another month or so..

    I’m just posting this to help people so they don’t have to lose their money to the voucher companies and wait for months to get their meat. And for all those sceptics out there I’m not Marlon, or Marlon’s mother ,father, wife, sister or whoever . just sharing my experience..

    If anyone tries this method and becomes successful, please post.

    Good luck

  • Trueler

    Hi Matt,

    Let me explain. This is how it is supposed to work:

    You complain to BBB on “The Butchers” (or Buytopia) that you can’t get purchased product, i.e. redeem your voucher as it was advertised. BBB contacts them and asks to resolve the problem with the customer. “The Butchers” and Buytopia become scared that their rating will fall and issue refund for you or invite you to the store to choose meat you like and honor the voucher. Then BBB closes the complaint without any effect on their ratings.

    But there is a problem… Both “The Butchers” and Buytopia already have the lowest possible rating “F”:

    http://www.bbb.org/kitchener/business-reviews/butchering/the-butchers-in-toronto-on-1223447

    http://www.bbb.org/kitchener/business-reviews/coupon-services/buytopia-in-mississauga-on-1237300

    BBB can’t refund you. “The Butchers” and Buytopia most likely won’t even respond, because they don’t care about their rating at BBB, or will ask you to follow new procedures. I don’t think BBB will accept complaint against “Marlon’s Meats” because it happened with “The Butchers”. If they even accept it, I don’t think Marlon really cares about this rating…

    I’m sorry man…

    Regards,
    Trueler

  • Luba

    Thought I would let everyone know I got contacted by the Butchers now known as Marlon’s Meat to go on Friday to meet out my meat!! Wasn’t too bad waiting a month or so since they re-opened.

  • Gary

    Pics or it never happened

  • scammed customer

    Ofcourse their store would look nice they used my money to renovate it!
    I bought $4000 worth of coupons because I believed in the process of buying deals through these various brokers, and now it makes other sites less credible because webpiggy and dealgetters (whom I purchased these coupons from) collected my money and have refused to reimburse me for falsely advertising on their site. I believe they should also be made legally responsible and should be held accountable to customers. If anyone is interested in collectively placing a class action suit against the butchers, and the voucher sites that sold us these bogus deals and then refuse to refund us then contact me ASAP as I am sick & tired at being made to wait and listen to more demands on how and when I can receive my product, if that ever materializes?
    At this point I think we need to ban together!

  • Angry customer

    After almost a year I have been told to get a refund from DealFind. They can only credit the credit card you used to order, which I don’t have anymore – and my only other option is to get Dealfind dollars. I don’t think so! What a total waste of time and effort. I have been very happy with Wag Jag and will use them if I ever decide to use any of these deals again….

  • Joe Business owner

    These deal find groupon companies, fight the business owner to put on the cheapest deal possible. They tell you how much people you will reach… and the fact that putting out this type of promotion would cost a real pretty penny(this is true). They bait you with the fact that you will get thousand of vouchered customers that will turn into real customers 50-60%. And there biggest selling point it the fact that there a 40% NON REDEMPTION… that are people that just void the voucher or people that just don’t bother to use it.

    for the record the business owner only gets half of the sales price… so if you pay $99 the business owner only gets 49.50… so 49.50 for 400 dollars worth of meat OMG

    and he doesn’t get this money all at once…. 33% 7 days after the offer closes….33% 30 days after that….the remainder 60 days after the close less any refunds or chargebacks…

    group buying isn’t always the best

  • Tariq

    After they reopened the store and learned about the new process put in place I asked Webpiggy for credit and after a few follow ups I heard back and was given an email approval (Marlon being copied on them) to get credit from The Butcher. I went to the store to collect my money but was told to come back in a week. I called after a week but was told to just sent my info to find out if i can come in. I said you have all my info. You have been copied on the emails. He give me a new email hinting that he is not even bothering to check his other email account (pretty punctual guy) but I have still to this day (now a month) haven’t heard the calls are not getting anywhere the emails are not replied to. Webpiggy is also playing deaf. Had a similar issue with one of the other coupon companies and was credited on the spot over the phone. One more time convinced not to deal with “no frills”

  • LETS PROTEST!

    Here’s an idea taken from the recent movements, and I’m serious.

    This guy is not going to respond unless he gets hurt in the only place that he cares about, his wallet.

    WHO WOULD LIKE TO JOIN ME IN A PROTEST IN FRONT OF THE BUTCHERS STORE NEXT SATURDAY DECEMBER 10TH OR 17TH?

    If we could get a minimum of 5 people together, we could disrupt his most profitable period of business all year, the Saturday’s in December, encouraging others to boycott the store unless he pays up.

    Anyone interested in this idea email me on pchipperton@hotmail.com and if I hear from 5 of you, lets do it.

  • J

    I have been trying to redeem my little $25 for $50 worth of meat voucher that I bought off Kijiji since December 2010! I have been to the shop 7 times and each time there is either no meat, the store is closed or they aren’t accepting vouchers that day/time or whatever.

    I e-mailed both Kijiji and the new Marlon’s Meats and Kijiji is not responding to ANYTHING, and I got 1 response from Marlon’s Meats saying that someone would get back to me in a few days (that was a month ago) and now that e-mail address is down…

    I figure I should just cut my losses, but I’m a girl hell bent on principle…I will take this to small claims if I have to…what are other options? Guess reporting them to the better business bureau has been done? Just so frustrated!

  • Tom

    I heard that they may be closing in the new year. He’s run out of money and he has lost most of his business. I have walked by there a few times and I have never seen a person in there yet. I wouldn’t hold your breath about redeeming anything other than bullsh#t from him.

  • Lee

    Anyone thinking about a class action agains the voucher distributers and Marlon’s?

    I m not sure if I was fortunate to use part of my voucher ( mine was from Webpiggy i.e. 100 for 400) early in the summer; but had no success to get further redemption. Based on what people are saying about his meat, I’m not even sure if I want to eat it myself let alone feed it to my family.

  • Li

    We received an email late November giving us our pickup date of Saturday December 10th between 11AM and 5PM. However, 1 week later we received another email saying that they can’t fill our order and a refund would be “considered” in the new year. My husband and I went to Marlon’s store on Friday December 23 at 6PM demanding our refund.Because I was demanding my money back, one of the staff threatened to call the police if I didn’t leave the store. I insisted that they do just that – call the police. They did not. When we arrived, we were told that Marlon was not in. Miracously Marlon appeared once I refused to leave the store, still demanding my refund. I did not ask for cash, I simply wanted my credit card refunded for the voucher value. Marlon did tell me (I have a witness to prove this) that I would probably not get a refund due to my back attitude and “harrassing” his staff. Or my refund would be placed at the bottom of the refund request pile. I’m not familiar with this business model! I’m not prepared to cut my loses as this is a matter of principle and bad business ethics.

  • bennxta

    HI,

    I purchased an item from buytopia.ca. They were offering a deal from Goodbuyfirst.com.

    I have contacted buytopia.ca several times and they have never provided me with a reply.

    Goodbuyfirst.com and buytopia.ca are sending me several emails, to confirm my delivery address, which I confirmed. They sent several more even though I have already confirmed my address.

    Goodbuyfirst.com also sent me a link to “sign up” and to enter a voucher number.
    However, there was no voucher number from buytopia.ca. The instructions were to re-purchase the item at a substantially higher price using a ‘voucher’ and to pay the extra ‘taxes’ applicable.

    I have been charged by these companies, have asked for an update with no response and was asked for personal information and to “sign up” more without ever receiving my goods or a reply from anyone who work in these companies.

  • JP

    Let’s start a class action against these guys, I’ve had it. Called them numerous times over the last year to place my measly order (Dealgetters $40 for $100 of meat, my father in law did the same) They keep putting it off, saying next month, next month, or two montsh from now.

    This morning marlon basically told me to f@ck off and get my money back from dealgetters who are ignoring my emails.

    email me @ janus2810@hotmail.com if you are interested in pursuing this legally or if you know of anyone else who already is, we would love to join in and put this guy’s business where it belongs, OUT OF BUSINESS!

  • binky

    No one is “starting a class action”. It couldn’t even be considered without knowing the other party has money to recover. Dealfind is the only one involved that clearly does, not coincidentally they are the one refunding no problem.

    No law enforcement agency is going to investigate. The problem is everyone is like yourself, spent almost a year waiting for someone else to do something. You, like the thousands of others, are free to file in small claims court. Of course its not really worth it, so you’ll sit holding out hope someone else does something.

    Everyone shouldn’t have waited to so long. People that made an effort early on got refunds or got their credit card to help. Likely all you’ll get now is a lesson learned for next time.

  • Trueler

    Courts and class actions are not really worth – I agree. “The Butchers” is done. It’s good that some people got refunds. Those who did not get… continue to press daily deal site who sold the vouchers to you. Remind them about Consumer Protection Act and that they are fully liable. If no refund – post reviews about the deal sites.

    Consumer Protection Act
    UNFAIR PRACTICES – False, misleading or deceptive representation
    :
    http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_02c30_e.htm#BK17

    What we can do now… Keep an eye on any new businesses Marlon starts and warn other people by posting reviews. Thanks for creating additional entry on yelp.ca:

    http://www.yelp.ca/biz/marlons-meat-toronto

    It used to be one for “The Butchers” with negative reviews, but “Marlon’s Meat” was perfect at some point.

    It was one of the good lessons which teach not to deal with daily deal websites who ignore their customers and support scams, like DealFind, SwarmJam, DealTicker, BuyTopia, WebPiggy, etc…

    Thanks,
    Trueler

  • Jane

    The Butchers has re-opened as Marlon’s Meats and I was told, very rudely, on the phone by them that they are not filling any voucher orders and not giving any refunds. I was told to contact Webpiggy as my ‘contract’ was with them. These people at The Butchers/Marlon’s are criminals and scum and they should be forced to make good on these vouchers since they got the benefit of the money. I can’t believe they are going to be able to get away with this.

  • PO

    Last week I spoke with someone on the phone at Marlon’s Meat (aka The Butchers). I asked to speak to Marlon and was told that he was not in and that he didn’t know when he would be in. I patiently explained that I had spoken to Marlon personally before Christmas and that he told me to call him in the New Year to setup a time to come into the store to redeem my coupon. The person who answered the phone at Marlon’s asked if I had placed my order or if was I waiting for a refund from Web Piggy. As I repeated the conversation that I had with Marlon before Christmas he cut me off mid sentence calling me “another coupon idiot” and hung up on me. I called again, identified myself and this time he began swearing at me and hung up again. I called a third time and as I was politely just asking when Marlon would be in… the person on the other end began screaming at me again…and told me to never call the store again. He ended the conversation by telling me to get a refund from Web Piggy. It really did sound like Marlon himself, and from what I have heard…. he’s done this before.

  • Tom

    They just pass the buck back and forth between marlon and the coupon companies telling you to get a refund from the other one when neither would ever give it. Hoping that you will just give up and accept the scam.

  • jonny

    buytopia will give you a refund if pressed. they will give you the royal run around. demand to speak to peter the manager. i threatened to sue. he said they were meeting with Marlon and it would be all worked out. when they did not meet he promised to give me my money back and eventually did. did not let them get away with this.

  • successful complaint

    I received a refund through my credit card this week. It took months of threats including filing a complaint with the Consumer Protection Branch but I got the money back.

    Peter knows that the contract is between Buytopia and the customer and that’s why he will give you a refund in the end.

    The Consumer Protection Branch staff are very much aware of this issue. If you want to file a complaint they will become involved but you first need to send Buytopia a demand letter.

    Here is a link to the Consumer Protection Branch’s complaint process:

    http://www.sse.gov.on.ca/mcs/en/Pages/Complaint_Steps_to_File.aspx

    Don’t give up.

  • disgusted

    I have been dealing with both buytopia and webpiggy to try to recoup our loss from “the Butchers”. Both companies refused to give back my money and offered a credit instead. Our CC company won’t refund either because we have exceeded the allowable time to request a refund. We also experienced major runaround trying to deal with Marlon himself and Peter and Howard at Buytopia and Webpiggy respectively.

    I do NOT want credit, I want my money back. However, since I have accepted credit (and was given no other options except lose the money) I am not sure I have any other options. Any advice out there? Would filing a complaint at the customer protection branch be valid since I have been given credit instead?

    Lesson learned, companies like groupon, wagjag, are much larger than buytopia and webpiggy and are more inclined to honour their deals – this is just my experience….

  • Ivan

    Deal on Wagjag today – is this the same place?

    http://www.wagjag.com/?vertical=grocery

  • Another Successful Complaint

    I finally received a refund from Buytopia. I placed my ‘order’ back in October and never heard from anybody after that. Emails asking ‘when’ my order would be filled to both Buytopia and Marlon’s (The Butchers) went unanswered.

    I finally emailed Buytopia and threatened legal action saying my lawyer was ‘bcc’ed’ on my email so they would be aware that I was done fooling around. I included their ‘guarantee’ of satisfaction as grounds as to why they should reimburse me. I checked my statement and I got my money back..

    Email Buytopia demanding your money back and paste the texe below (from their site) as their guarantee of satisfaction to you:

    Our Promise to You
    Your satisfaction is our number one concern. If ever you feel unhappy about your experience with buytopia.ca or any of our featured businesses, we want to hear about it right away! We guarantee to do everything in our power to get things right and make you happy.

    That being said, we want to hear the good stuff too! That way we can keep providing what our customers love, and make sure to cut out what they don’t. So, have any thoughts or concerns? Send us an email or drop us a line: feedback@buytopia.ca or 1-855-442-2220, we’re looking forward to hearing from you!

    Our Refund Guarantee
    We guarantee that if you have had any problems with a voucher you bought from our site, we will give you a full refund within 10 days of purchasing the deal, and a full Buytopia credit within 30 days of purchasing the deal. If though, you are unable to use a valid voucher after the 30 day period because the business shut down or changed management, let us know and we’ll try to get you your money back.

    You are our #1 priority, so keep in touch!

    How Do I Get My Refund?
    Just send us an e-mail with all your details and we will gladly refund your money!

  • Chris

    After months of leaving messages to both Webpiggy and The Butchers about obtaining meat or a refund, I drove all the way to the Butchers yesterday (I was quite surprised: The store looks pretty much the same as it did before the reno and the shelves are as empty as ever).

    Marlon refused to honor my coupons, not even the one that is on his letterhead and with his signature (after I partially used a coupon last spring). He just sent me back to Webpiggy, which does not return messages. Just great…

  • J

    After no real luck with the voucher companies I went to Visa and asked for a refund, as the merchant was perpetrating fraudulent methods, and showing my email correspondence with the voucher companies. 2 weeks later and full refund! Go to the source.

  • Marlon Hater

    Is anyone interested in some form a class action lawsuit against Marlon’s Meat? I know we won’t be able to recover the full amount of our coupons but we can inflict more pain for his unscrupulous practices.

  • Eleni

    Bleh, spending the day talking to Buytopia about refunding my coupons from early 2011….still on the phone….

  • Sandi

    To Marlon Hater – I agree! And I’d be willing to add my name to a class action suit. I’ve been trying since November 2011 to get some form of response from Buytopia and/or Marlon’s. Surprise! No one ever gets back to me. It’s ridiculous to think that a company could run this type of scam so openly and outrageously at that. Why are they not being held accountable???

    Barring a lawsuit, how about a March on Marlon’s? Maybe Buytopia Blockade? I’m sure a couple hundred angry, bilked customers, along with news cameras, descending on their front doors might get their attention.

  • Sam

    Check out Peter Silverman’s website: http://petersilvermanhelps.com/

    Mr. Silverman asks that you contact him if you are a victim of Marlon’s Meat and Webpiggy.

  • Sue MarlonPather

    Good afternoon fellow fraud victims!

    If you’re interested in an attempt to recover some or all of the money you spent at The Butcher’s Organic/Marlon’s Meats, please email suemarlonpather@gmail.com.

    I am not a lawyer. I am, however, betting that Mr. Pather and his accomplices have assumed that the individuals he defrauded will not be able to work together to pursue him. I’d really like to prove him wrong and I’m willing to administer a list of people interested in a class action. Once a reasonable number of people have indicated their willingness to participate in a class action civil suit, I will communicate our options via email. If we have an overwhelming response (fingers crossed) I intend to form a committee of interested individuals to manage the process.

    Please note that the lawyer representing us will ultimately be responsible for strategy (for example, do we sue the group buying deal sites or do we try to get them on board by asking them to join in our action?).

    Your information will NOT BE SHARED without your explicit permission and will be only be communicated to the lawyer that we ultimately engage to represent us.

    Please note that harassment will not be tolerated and will be reported to the authorities.

    Please provide
    1. your name
    2. a daytime telephone number
    3. your email address
    4. the terms of the deal you purchased

    Looking forward to hearing from you! Please spread the word and don’t hesitate to be in touch!

    Best,
    Steph

  • Laura Nonaurbusiness

    Hi All,

    So I too was one of the victims of Marlon the Scam artist .. I actually work in the neighbourhood so when i saw this deal i thought “hey, why not, I can run over at lunch and grab some FRESH QUALITY meat for dinner” and bought 2 of the $99 for $400 worth of meat deals…

    I ended up talking to Marlon who was so upset about the violence and vandalism happening in his store from these deals, he cried me this huge story and i felt bad for him…. little did i know what was really going on… no kidding people were going in there flipping out, he was scamming them…

    anyways I built up a little repore with Marlon, so when I dropped in one night after work to grab a few steaks for dinner (perhaps in June sometime??)he put it through even though it didnt “conform” with the newly set out voucher approved times…. wanna hear the crazy part….. $69 for 3 small piddly steaks!!!! I almost fell over when the girl told me my total.. but what ever right… quality, organic meat I got a good deal with the voucher…. blah blah blah… ps the meat wasnt that good after being BBQ’d

    so then I did nothing for the next few months, didnt do ne research… Noticed he closed for renovations..didnt think ne thing of it…. until my sister who was also a victim told me what was going on… I still shrugged it off…

    Marlon reopened and I bought a different voucher for “organic” beef ribs I think it was $22 for 11 lbs and you could chose the location to redeem and his store happend to be one of them…. when i went in this time… his whole demener and attitude had changed… i inquired about this meat order that my ssiter had placed in MAy (it was now Oct) he was rude and informed me that it was in que… right…. what ever that means …

    a short time later my sister again started talking to me about this scam and got me riled up…. the end result of her telling me I wont be successful and win… I WON!

    I contacted my credit card company and reported this SCAM! there is so much info and facts out there to prove that it is a scam… calll and report buytopia or who ever and let the CC comapnies kno whats going on! Call your local MPP, report them to the BBB get the word out there about these companies!

  • Jack Armstrong

    Some of you may have past by “Marlon’s meat” in the past few weeks or called the shop only to notice the signage outside has been removed and their phone number has been put out of service. Please know the shop is open and operating using the back door. This is to avoid voucher holders as the expiry date is near to redeem.

  • Tom

    Shouldn’t these coupon/gift certificates not be able to expire under the provincial law that doesn’t let gift cards expire. They are not really coupons because they cost money. They are more like a discounted pre paid voucher of some sort. We need some legislation

  • D.J

    Hi,
    I’m totally interested in suing buytopia & The Butcher. I purchased a $99 for $400 voucher and I have not being able to redeem the voucher. I tried calling and emailing Buytopia, but they are not returning their email or calls.
    DJ

  • mark

    As stated above I did see that the “Marlon’s Meat” sign is still down as of April 20. I didn’t know they also disconnected their phone. Jack (see above post), are you saying that customers can’t use the front door but the shop is still open ?

  • Anita

    I bought my coupons, had absolutely no trouble using them, received great service, and enjoyed the tastiest meat I’ve had in years! Yes, the meat is expensive, but that’s because of the quality, and the way the animals are raised. My coupons are used up now (and what a great deal they were!), but I’ve become a regular customer. Just wanted to say that not all have had bad experiences here.

  • Jack

    Are you high Anita? No one got to use their coupons and no one is a regular customer because he screwed half the city and now closed his store.

  • Rob

    We’ve been going into Marlon’s for years… the quality has been great and we’ve not had issues mentioned but then again we didn’t buy any of the group deal coupons.

    The Toronto Star did some research on the suppliers and confirmed the meat as organic and as the poster admits, presence of starch does not in any way imply the meat is non-organic, simply that it contains some form of starch.

    For those who suggest the store is still closed (Jack), you need to do a little better work on fact checking before making such nasty comments. The store is indeed open and thousands of folks were able to successfully redeem their coupons. It was closed while the coolers were expanded… (at the Dept of Health’s request) to handle the volume and the redemption period was extended to compensate.

    Man you guys are like chicken little on here… one blogger (who can’t even spell) writes a bad review with some bad science, draws one possible conclusion out of the myriad possibilities and everyone jumps on it like lemmings. Kill the wabbit! kill the wabbit!

    What will you do when all the small businesses are gone because jerks like you beat them up into bankruptcy and the only choice left is Costco?

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